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Nick Griffin's court case
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/4614994.stm
Personally, i think it's an absolute disgrace. He has a right to free speech, and in my opinion what he actually said didn't cross the line.
I pay some attention to his commentary as i think that despite his politics, his finger is, in some ways, "on the pulse" and i've never read anything from Griffin which crosses the line.
Personally, i think it's an absolute disgrace. He has a right to free speech, and in my opinion what he actually said didn't cross the line.
I pay some attention to his commentary as i think that despite his politics, his finger is, in some ways, "on the pulse" and i've never read anything from Griffin which crosses the line.
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I don't like the BNP... I think they target uneducated people and provide sub-GCSE standard statistics and research to back up their pseudo intellectual racist ideals.
I'm a human rights student and thus I believe in freedom of speech, however there is always the debate as to what is more important... Freedom of speech or solidarity within communities?
http://historical-studies.ncl.ac.uk/postgrad_forum/edition_three/edition_three_AliA.htm
The BNP is a party of rascist filthbags.
Freedom of speech. Obviously.
Denying freedom of speech is the reverse-opposite of fascism and harms the national consciousness.
Not only that but prohibiting a view doesn't promote solidarity at all. It just aggravates the problem.
With regard to freedom of speech, regulars here know my opinion about it. I think people should not have the right to say certain things, when those things are filthy obscene racist shit.
Until the Prosecution open their case properly it's not proper to say any more, but if that's the premise of their case then all I can say is "oops".
personally I think he should be allowed to say it. These people think like that anyway, and normal rational people aren't going to have their views changed by rabid filth like him.
Griffin isn’t stupid though, while it’s nice to think that like his supporters he’s simply a stupid right wing thug he’s not. He’s extremely clever and knows what he’s doing. Although I’m not convinced that he’s as dangerous as Hamza – who as reported in the
Telegraph 'urged his followers to become suicide bombers.' Although the two do share a fanatical anti-Semitism and an extreme intolerance of those that don't subscribe to their fundamentalist ideologies Griffin isn't dangerous in the way Hamza is.
Griffin will be hoping for a guilty verdict anyway as that will be of maximum political benefit to him. I hope the jury don't give him the satisfaction.
he's a knob, and as long as the prosecution can prove he's made up lies to incite violence they're doing a good job
Why not just argue the contrary, if you disagree?
I think Griffin's pretty clued up on Islam as it happens.
Disillusioned - Hamza is calling for violence. Griffin isn't. Regardless of how much you hate his politics, this prosecution is well out of order.
No he shouldn't.
Firstly because it happens to be true. Certainly in West Yorkshire, in particular keighley, young Pakistani and Bangladeshi men ARE targeting young white teenage girls and subjecting them to some horrible ordeals. It happens.
Of course it's not because they're Muslim, but lets not pretend it doesn't happen. The abuse my sister (slim, blonde, pretty, living in Bradford) gets from young Asian men is disgusting.
Let me put it this way, the BNP are hardly Oswald Mosley and the Black Shirts. They were openly Fascists at a time of Fascist popularity world wide, but they also had class and status been made up what you expected your politicians of the time to be like.
oh piss off
I think it’s a cultural problem really, like you I don’t think it’s anything to do with Islam. There are unfortunately groups within some ethnic minorities who have values that are simply incompatible with a liberal democracy. Forced marriages for instance in a civilised society cannot be tolerated.
Unfortunately within our society and sadly particularly prevalent amongst the Muslim community widespread sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism and intolerance towards other religions exists. Of course all of these things are surely incompatible with the far-left yet for some reason the far-left seems to have forged a very close friendship with some Muslim groups. Largely because the Iraq war I know so these two seemingly contradictory groups have that in common – but then again weren’t the BNP against Iraq? But I don't think we'll see the left and BNP coming together.
Although come to think of it when it comes to say Jews and gays is there much difference in opinion between the BNP and some Muslims?
That'll be Galloway and Respect. No one on the left takes them seriously.
I've been through a fair bit of sexual harassment (I don't know what constitutes sexual abus, I think that's happened too) at the hands of white people... I feel safer in Kingston than Wrexham and Kingston is hugely diverse.
The issue Griffin's talking about is the mentality amongst many second generation muslims in the sectarian ghettoes of yorkshire.
Yes, it's evidently true that sexual harrassment and rape aren't exclusive to any particular group. But the worrying behaviour and attitudes of certain groups are certainly worthy of attention.
No-one has highlighted the problem - just as when Griffin was telling of the militant, terroristic attitude in the british islamic community and the danger of attacks. Before the london attacks of course, Nick Griffin's highlighting of the issue was dismissed as pure fantasy.
Of course it's horribly misleading, and certainly very odious to say that these things happen because they are Asians, because they are Moslem, and that "they" are all like that.
But what Griffin actually points out is that these communities are producing people who do this on a far more regular basis than is desirable, and the lack of condemnation from these communities for these people is deafening. The ghettoes of Yorkshire are producing these people, and these people are not being brought to justice in many cases.
The notable exception to this was the Bradford riots, where many in the Asian community in Bradford did shop their neighbours in. Unfortunately they all got their sentences drastically cut because of the "matrix of racial fear" that ten BNP nutters at the train station managed to create.
He can't say what he likes, but he is very clever in what he does say. Something Mark Collett doesn't seem as good at. Either way, the only reason i can see him being brought to trial for this is that the establishment are fearful there are people out there naive enough to support them.
Good. Don't mind me if I start saying it then.
:rolleyes:
As for the establishment, we know Britain is being led by a politically correct Left-wing agenda which is warped in conception and implementation. If they won't tolerate dissent from a couple that wanted to display Christian literature next to gay rights leaflets, they will surely come down on Griffin like a ton of bricks. In this case, they're right to do so, but I'm still wary of the establishment's motives.
Actually then it may very well be sexist...
Oh dear, i don't understand these rules at all.
MOTION TO PROTEST AGAINST THE BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY LEADERSHIP OUTSIDE LEEDS CROWN COURT ON 16/01/2006
THIS UNION NOTES
1. That the chairman of the British National Party (BNP), Nick Griffin and the former BNP youth leader Mark Collett are to stand trial at Leeds Crown Court charged with incitement to racial hatred. This prosecution was instigated following the screening of the BBC’s Panorama documentary ‘The Secret Agent’, when Griffin was filmed called Islam a “dragon” and “wicked faith”.
2. That Nick Griffin made similar remarks on an edition of the BBC’s Newsnight following the 2001 riots in Bradford.
3. That this Union passed an Anti-Fascism, Protecting Democracy & Multiculturalism motion at the 1/12/2005 Student General Meeting to forward onto the 2006 NUS Nation Conference.
THIS UNION BELIEVES
1. That the BNP is a fascist organization that has enjoyed some electoral success at local government level by posing as a ‘respectable’ political party as both Benito Mussolini and Adolf Hitler did in the 1920s and 1930s. The BNP abuses the democratic process in the hope to acquire the executive, legislative and legal power to destroy it. Nick Griffin himself has stated that “when the crunch comes, power is about force not rational debate”.
2. That the BNP have actively instigated racist and Islamaphobic violence in Bradford, Burnley and Oldham. ‘The Secret Agent’ also showed senior members of the BNP glorify and incite acts of racist and homophobic violence. Racist attacks also drastically increased by 500% in Burnley alone after the election of BNP councilors.
3. That Nick Griffin is a holocaust denier, claiming that it is a myth.
4. That the BNP promotes misleading propaganda about discrimination against Caucasians. The BNP has no authority to discuss discrimination against Caucasians when the party itself openly discriminates against non-Caucasians
5. That the BNP called for 2 national mobilisations in November 2005. A planned national demonstration in Keighley was cancelled following a police ban and mobilisation by Unite Against Fascism (UAF) for a national counter demonstration.
THIS UNION FURTHER BELEVES
1. That discrimination, prejudice, persecution and murder on the basis of age, creed, disability, ethnicity, gender, height, physical appearance, sexual orientation, weight and skin colour is irrational, degrading, exclusionary, elitist, extremely distressing and absolutely morally reprehensible.
2. That although we are all unique with regard to our personalities plus our mental and physical characteristics and needs, all humanity shares a common ancestry. We are all one race, the human race!
3. That to merely tolerate our differences as a natural occurrence that cannot be helped is wrong. All humanity should openly embrace, treasure and revel in our rich collective diversity. Variety is the spice of life and without it; humanity would be a duller, poorer and endangered or extinct species.
4. That the BNP denies both itself and the rest of humanity the full and positive nature of the human condition. To discriminate and be prejudiced against, persecute and murder others on the basis of age, creed, disability, ethnicity, gender, height, physical appearance, sexual orientation, weight and skin colour is to discriminate and be prejudiced against, persecute ourselves and commit suicide.
5. That the BNP is the enemy of all rational and caring humans and must be opposed by all rational and caring humans at every opportunity.
THIS UNION RESOLVES
1. That this Union mobilise students to attend the protest against the BNP outside Leeds Crown Court on 16/01/2006
2. That this Union work with other anti-fascist organisations and individuals to raise general awareness of this protest throughout the Union, University and wider local community.
It was passed!
What does that achieve?
The irony is motions like this play into the BNP's hands. They can present themselves as being persecuted and denied their political rights, and at the same time the anti-BNP movement make themselves look like fannies.
Shouldn't you be out getting drunk and shagging girls instead?
I'm sure a load of whingeing students will convince those racists that they're wrong!
Blagsta, SG's just lost it I think. If he seriously thinks Blair is anything other than a neo-liberal he's demented.
I'm more of a believer that it's class that is the catylist for this sort of behaviour, but that's just my experiences. I do think that we need to address the problem with political correctness.
He targets the working class, frustrated and vulnerable people, tells them that their problems are caused by -insert easy target here-... It's easy to attack those people than take on the system, in my opinion.