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The Installation Of Tyranny Gathers Pace.

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    So what are you gonna do? Send emails while slagging other people off on here?
    i did kind of sugest that surely strikes and student protests along with a bombardment of of emails ...i don't know why i bother.
    you are only realy concerned with being superior ...a sure sign of insecurity.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely if direct violent uprising is not a practical option then you have a point about mass strikes, walk outs, productivity shutdown. Seems to have proven effective in Ghandi's day.

    Although MR, it would have to be clear to all those who subscribed to this option that the PTB would not hesitate to kill, maim or otherwise violently intimidate those involved to force them back to work.

    It would require a seriously high percentage of the general public across several key sectors to usher in change. The problems being systemic in nature, they require reordering of the powers and principles of governance themselves. Otherwise all you achieve is a change of actors with the same script remaining intact.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Although MR, it would have to be clear to all those who subscribed to this option that the PTB would not hesitate to kill, maim or otherwise violently intimidate those involved to force them back to work.

    No different from what Ghandi faced then...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That was my point, thanks. :yes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i did kind of sugest that surely strikes and student protests along with a bombardment of of emails ...i don't know why i bother.
    you are only realy concerned with being superior ...a sure sign of insecurity.

    Errrr...what? :confused: Yes, strikes and protests would be a good idea. But political activity without any underlying analysis is pointless. History teaches us that. So, instead of having a go at me for daring to use my brain a bit, why not do something constructive for a change?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As long as two myths remain it's not going to happen.

    1) Is the rule of law. Quite why the same people who know that the law is made up by self interested motherfuckers in westminster to please certain political ends also believe that the law is a set of neutral precepts that hold "society" together is a mystery.

    Have a link

    http://mason.gmu.edu/~jhasnas/MythWeb.htm

    2) Myth number two is my favourite. That forced commonality called "being a citizen" in a "nation" it's akin to thinking that there really is a santa claus and like small children waiting to hear the tinkling of tiny bells no one wants to hear that Mummy and Daddy lied to them.

    Neither one bears even the slightest scrutiny and they are both the major devices that the PTB maintain sway. As Clandestine says you only change the actors and not the play if you organise politically. Your biggest problem is having people like me who know there is no nation or states or towns or whathaveyou in charge, because they will do anything they want and go to sleep laughing at your idiocy.

    And no matter which group you set up they will be in charge of it because they have more options behaviourally to get to the top. This is why the world is run by sociopaths.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    So instead of having an analysis of the situation so maybe we could organise politically, you want to just close your eyes? Fairynuff, Thatcher did a good job in stifling political opposition in this country. The last 25 years of neo-liberalism and individualism and the smashing of collective politics has left us...where? In a place where even discussing how and why we are exploited is laughed at. :(:( :mad:

    Sorry, don't need some old dude to tell me what the situation is. I know and so does the rest of the working class know what the situation is and our eyes certainly aint closed. What I said is that there aint nothing we can do, even if we organise politically.

    I'm not laughing at it either mate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Sorry, don't need some old dude to tell me what the situation is. I know and so does the rest of the working class know what the situation is and our eyes certainly aint closed. What I said is that there aint nothing we can do, even if we organise politically.

    I'm not laughing at it either mate.

    There are things that can be done. Employment rights, better wages and workign conditions weren't magicked out of the air. They were fought for. They can still be fought for.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    There are things that can be done. Employment rights, better wages and workign conditions weren't magicked out of the air. They were fought for. They can still be fought for.

    And this has exactly what to do with Marxism?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    And this has exactly what to do with Marxism?

    Class.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No one fights anymore, and if they did, it wouldnt last very long. Most people give up easily!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    No one fights anymore, and if they did, it wouldnt last very long. Most people give up easily!

    Well this isn't true is it?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Isn't it?

    The anti-war movement for example had afew hardcore supporters, but as soon as the media got bored, so did most of the people. They stopped marching, protesting or doing anything except occasionally saying how they were on the one big march.

    In New Orleans, a lot of people went to help and offer aid, then after a week got bored and gave up. People are interested so long as celebrities and the media are interested, because people are fickle!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cochabamba_Riots_of_2000 for a start. Just because you don't hear about things, doesn't mean they don't happen.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was talking about Western nations, not nations wose development is still at a point which we have moved beyond. Hence why i used an example of here in the UK.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why concentrate on western nations? capitalism is global, the privatisation of water in Bolivia is a consequence of the west. Oh and don't forget the tube strikes, Gate Gourmet, BA etc
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah... and they all lasted so long and brought the country to a halt for months at a time. I was limiting to the west because thats what we were talking about, until you brought up bolivia. i certainly wasnt thinking of anywhere outside the developed west since i was making a point about apathy not capitalism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just because you're apathetic, don't project it on everyone else.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I am not apathetic, I am saying a lot of people in the west are!
    It is there to see!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Still people claim this government is shifting to the right. Illegal wars, free speech abolished, this is the most left wing government we have ever had.

    Tony Blair allowing the tapping of telephones and other forms of communication, Defence Secretary John Reid has said.


    What makes it all the more troubling is the amount of liberal types who are supporting these Marxist architects as they go around smashing our liberties with their ID cards and growing police state on the grounds of protection from terror. Ludicrous nonsense.
    I don't see how this makes sense... At all. Do you understand the difference between left wing and right wing?

    There's a difference between liberalism and Marxism, the two aren't juxtaposed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's a difference between liberalism and Marxism, the two aren't juxtaposed.

    Bizzarely Born Slippy is right about the whole left/right thing. It's been hijacked by statists to further their aims.

    The underlying assumption is always that you must have some government, and that you can either have left wing government or right wing government. Funnily enough these are structurally the same, but benefit different groups of people.

    Governments that use violence and threats to benefit those from the "lower class" are left wing. Governments that use violence and threats to benefit a small elite are right wing. They are both totalitarian. Even liberal ideology can be totalitarian if it's imposed on people using force.

    The content changes but the process remains the same- it's one man violently imposing his will on another. It's this process that's the problem.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ignore klintock, he knows not of what he speaks
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you can see a factual failing in my analysis point it out please.

    Of course, being in favour of "legitimised" violence on behalf of fiction yourself, it's going to be hard for you to get your head round. In other words, you are a statist.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apart from you completely failing to understand any political terms that is? Don't make me laugh.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apart from you completely failing to understand any political terms that is? Don't make me laugh.

    No facts in this sentence. Are you gonna provide any or what?

    Btw, I can't "fail to understand". When someone is attempting to communicate with me, they either get through to me (success) or don't (failure) either way, the onus is on the person doing the communication to get their point over.

    To say that someone else doesn't understand what you mean is to just to be a lazy, incompetent communicator.

    Anyway, fuck that, let's have some facts.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Because we're living in an increasingly classless society. Do you think the Working Class can be defined as strongly now as it would say 30 years ago. Doubt it.

    It could be said the middle class is the new working class...we're all slaves to the system, regardless of blue collar/white collar divisions.

    This is a pivotal notion i'd like to see socialist organisations addressing, but unfortunately i don't. All i can see is the same old bores backed up by the new-wave of pathetic, conscience-driven, loathed-by-all-others-but-lefty-students wanking themselves silly over pictures of John Mclean and Leon Trotsky.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    It could be said the middle class is the new working class...we're all slaves to the system, regardless of blue collar/white collar divisions.

    Depends on what class defintions you use. In strict Marxist terms, there are only 2 classes and most middle class people would be working class.
    Spliffie wrote:
    This is a pivotal notion i'd like to see socialist organisations addressing, but unfortunately i don't. All i can see is the same old bores backed up by the new-wave of pathetic, conscience-driven, loathed-by-all-others-but-lefty-students wanking themselves silly over pictures of John Mclean and Leon Trotsky.

    That'll be the SWP. No one takes 'em seriously.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Depends on what class defintions you use. In strict Marxist terms, there are only 2 classes and most middle class people would be working class.



    That'll be the SWP. No one takes 'em seriously.

    The SSP too. Colin Fox dressing up as Robin Hood and parading about glasgow city centre just about destroyed any veigh sense of credibility socialists had up here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Bizzarely Born Slippy is right about the whole left/right thing. It's been hijacked by statists to further their aims.

    The underlying assumption is always that you must have some government, and that you can either have left wing government or right wing government. Funnily enough these are structurally the same, but benefit different groups of people.
    Say the BNP got in to government... Economically they are quite left wing, yet socially they are quite right wing. So are they a left wing or right wing party? The media tends to often focus on the social side, perhaps partly to smokescreen us on how we're being exploited by governments and maybe globalists, but also because it's something a lot of us feel we have more control over. The media would call the BNP 'right wing' because of for example, their attitude towards ethnic groups...

    I don't think the ideals between left wing and right wing groups are the same... There's a difference between libertarianism and authoritarianism. A difference between neo-comservatism and neo-marxism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Class.

    So you think that employment rights, better wages and working conditions were a direct result from the working class or just the ruling class giving them to the working class to keep them at bay?
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