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Faith?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Wanker Blair continues to support these bloody faith schools, why?

We are meant to live in an atheist society where the state is seperated from education yet Blair persists with his support for these divisive institutions because they "get good results". Does this man have any principles?Will he sacrifice anything gor results or to meet targets?

Faith schools are bad news, they divide children into groups when there is no need.... <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I find this religious segregationalist stance really rather disturbing, and in the current political climate it's bizarre that Blair's putting the encouraging oar in. Possibly it's just not the best time for him to be discouraging it, however, as it would certainly be seen by some (religious groups in the main) as a negative attack on faith and another controlling move by the athiest state of the west.

    I disagree with his stance, but can understand that now may not be the best time to start protesting (not that there ever could be a 'best time').
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its simple...In this day and age he cant do anything that affects muslims in way at all. Hes not allowed to argued against muslim faith schools which means the christian faith schools get support by default.

    Its just political correctness. He is torn between seperating religion and state, and appeasing minority groups. I think we all know that appeasing minority groups will win every time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm not sure how much it has to do with the Muslim schools, I think there are something like 3 state run Muslim faith schools but there are hundreds of C of E and other Protestant denomination schools. The argument seems to be that there is a lot of demand for such schools because they get higher than average grades (nothing to do with mainly being suburban and middle-class <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"> )therefore there should be more never mind the social effects.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah im getting mixed up i think..

    I thought the main CoE schools and the like were all private. I wasnt aware that the government funded the so called 'faith schools'.

    What exactly is wrong with them again? AFAIK, these schools are not exclusive of non Christians. I went to a CoE primary school up in solihull and we had all religions present.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think primary schools have a big problem, a lot of my friends went to a C of E primary school.

    The problem (as I see it) is with later stages of schooling. Children of the religion associated with that school WILL have a better chance of gaining entrance (whatever they say)

    There are then issues with pray time, RE and assemblies etc.

    I have read stories about Catholic families that have had difficulty finding a school for their child because the local school is C of E and they understandably don't want there child going there.

    In urban areas it is easy to picture all the Muslims going to one school, all the Catholics to another etc. Hardly a boost for race relations or the integration of different communities.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They are state owned. Even schools which are supposely non religious follow Christianity, eg at my secondary school, which was 1/3 minority pupils and many more of other faiths, we still had to say prayers, sing hymns etc. I think it should be kept out of school.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by * k-t *:
    <STRONG>I think it should be kept out of school.</STRONG>

    Nice one - I agree...to an extent. Kids should be educated in objective terms, but I'm all in favour of them being taught the general ideas behind all religious institutions. That should be a part of education in the same way as History and Politics is. All have made the world into what it is today, and will continue to structure it. Maybe an unbiased, open-minded approach would instill a maturity to deal with minority belief systems.

    It's even more important for kids brought up with a specific faith to be taught such things too, I think.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can not speak for other schools, but in general RS we learnt about all the major religions and had to visit all the places of worship.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by * k-t *:
    <STRONG>They are state owned. Even schools which are supposely non religious follow Christianity, eg at my secondary school, which was 1/3 minority pupils and many more of other faiths, we still had to say prayers, sing hymns etc. I think it should be kept out of school.</STRONG>

    It was a similar situation at my school. Although there were almost no ethnic minorities I think its safe to say that a fair number of pupils were atheists. Yes I am a christian, but I don't feel the need to force my religion onto other people, particularly those from a completely different religious background.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I personally don't agree with single faith schools - they don't exactly encourage mixing in the ethnic groups, do they?! I think my school has it right (it's a CTC), we don't sing hymns, etc... when the headteacher leads a prayer (for the people in the world trade centre attacks, for instance), she would say 'i'm going to pray for these people, you are welcome to join me, but if you don't wish to, just think about what's been happening'. We got taught about the 6 major religions, and visited places of worship for all of them. My school is in one of the biggest turkish communities in the country, and we have representatives from 33 different cultures there... i know this cos we just held our annual multicultural evening, in aid of teaching one another about our beliefs and background (and eating and drinking lots, for free!)

    [ 20-03-2002: Message edited by: punkinlondon ]
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg:
    <STRONG>We are meant to live in an atheist society where the state is seperated from education</STRONG>

    The correct term is secular, not atheist. The latter is quite specifically the denial of the existence of a particular kind of deity. The former is the correct term to describe the separation of religious and educational / political / whatever affairs.

    As for separation of state and education: when was that announced? Recall that before the widespread institution of state-funded education the providers of education were precisely private institutions and church schools. Would you prefer a return to that situation?
    Does this man have any principles?Will he sacrifice anything gor results or to meet targets?

    He is a politician. Question answered. <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0" ALT="icon">
    <STRONG>Faith schools are bad news, they divide children into groups when there is no need.... <IMG SRC="mad.gif" border="0" ALT="icon"></STRONG>

    Actually, there is a need. It is a sad fact that for a good proportion of the human race the use of religion is the only way to inculcate any kind of moral calculus whatsoever.
    Originally posted by SconeBeast:
    <STRONG>but I'm all in favour of them being taught the general ideas behind all religious institutions. That should be a part of education in the same way as History and Politics is.</STRONG>

    I entirely agree that History and Moral Philosophy would be a great course to teach young people, to educate them and encourage them to think. Unfortunately, such a course would be the death knell for several established institutions. Moreover, not everyone would be capable of understanding it, and there would be few -- were it to start tomorrow -- capable of teaching it.

    [ 20-03-2002: Message edited by: MacKenZie ]
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