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How much am I worth?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, as I've never really voiced these opinions before so I've not heard the objections/ oposing views, but- isn't it already the case that we turn over much of the resposibility of formally educating our children to 'the state' by sending them to state schools? And thus, wouldn't it be better, and isn't so that legislation is already changing so that parents or official 'carers' are being given more say in how this is achieved? Along with more input, we could do with diverting a little more cash to the education system too. If you have a better idea I would be anxious to hear it and adapt my views and lobbying actions that way, I'm looking for the best way to raise my child, and for all the children in this country/world to get the best that we can enable.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    Well, as I've never really voiced these opinions before so I've not heard the objections/ oposing views, but- isn't it already the case that we turn over much of the resposibility of formally educating our children to 'the state' by sending them to state schools? And thus, wouldn't it be better, and isn't so that legislation is already changing so that parents or official 'carers' are being given more say in how this is achieved? Along with more input, we could do with diverting a little more cash to the education system too. If you have a better idea I would be anxious to hear it and adapt my views and lobbying actions that way, I'm looking for the best way to raise my child, and for all the children in this country/world to get the best that we can enable.
    then mother your children but teach and care about mine.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what disturbs me is ...parenting is about love.
    a different kind of love that you have for a spouse or a firend.

    i don't want people even attempting to give parental kind of love to MY children ...parental love is called such cos it comes from the parents so your ideas about mothering are as far as i'm concerned very mixed up with caring ...being responsible and being proffesional in the educating and training of other peoples children.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you've slightly got the wrong end of the stick there MR. What is being suggested is that anybody who is in a caring role - a parent, a teacher, nurse, librarian etc. is rewarded properly for investing in children. That doesn't mean that a teacher suddenly tries to be a parent to the children s/he teaches, it means that the renumeration they receive reflects what an important job they do.
    i may have missed something but this mothering line keeps coming up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, I love my babe, but care about 'all the little children' (in a non Michael Jackson way) so I guess The definition of motherhood I gave makes a distinction between parental love and non-parental care giving to all children. I use the term 'motherhood' as that's what the concept was named where I first read concrete thought out ideas of how this beautiful idea of collective caring about the upbring of all children, and how to not only educate them for fitness in the current society but to also try to change the future society too. There is probably a more appropriate term, especially as we live in a bi-gender (multi-gender?) society, unlike "Herland", my inspirational text. What terminology would you apply here?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    Yeah, I love my babe, but care about 'all the little children' (in a non Michael Jackson way) so I guess The definition of motherhood I gave makes a distinction between parental love and non-parental care giving to all children. I use the term 'motherhood' as that's what the concept was named where I first read concrete thought out ideas of how this beautiful idea of collective caring about the upbring of all children, and how to not only educate them for fitness in the current society but to also try to change the future society too. There is probably a more appropriate term, especially as we live in a bi-gender (multi-gender?) society, unlike "Herland", my inspirational text. What terminology would you apply here?
    my missus is deeply involved with kids with aspergers syndrome.
    dedicated and commiteid and caring.
    she too wants to improve the care of all the children in the world but she wouldn't dream of calling it mothering.
    so what terminology ...i dunno!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks for the thread reference, took a while but it was interesting. And (off topic) *wow* that Rich Kid was an arse!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    Thanks for the thread reference, took a while but it was interesting. And (off topic) *wow* that Rich Kid was an arse!

    those were the days :P

    lukesh was better though
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mist, your argument that bringing up children is not a proper job has been done to death. I still don't see how you can hold that view.

    Fine, whatever. I've already said that I'm not going to debate that again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kaff, I don't think you do realise how much money children cost.

    it isn't the kids that cost. it's convenience. disposable nappies, formula, that £300 travel system, carseats, toys, baby gap... put the child in terry nappies and handmade clothes and breastfeed them and they are still as happy, but a lot cheaper. some people don't want to do this, and that's fair enough, but it's annoying to be told it can't be done. my grandma was an immigrant widow and raised 4 kids on her own on a waitresses wage, with no grants or benefits. it might not have been the ideal situation, but they were happy enough.

    people have been having kids for hundreds and thousands of years. but it's only quite recently that they've become so expensive.

    this is all beside the point, anyway, and i'm going to leave it cause i've seen how debates about parenting go...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    PROVE IT! QUOTE ME!


    well this kind of made me think that's what you meant.

    'I believe that the future of humanity and society can be bettered for the current and future generations by the gearing of society towards motherhood'
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    kaffrin wrote:
    it isn't the kids that cost. it's convenience. disposable nappies, formula, that £300 travel system, carseats, toys, baby gap... put the child in terry nappies and handmade clothes and breastfeed them and they are still as happy, but a lot cheaper.

    No, that's babies. Which I suspect is where your confusion lies. Although it's actually been shown that terry nappies aren't that much cheaper once you factor in the cost and time to wash them, they're just infinitely better for the environment.

    The real costs come when they can walk and talk- school uniforms on average cost £200 a set, and often need to be replaced twice a year. That's a lot of money. Then there's books, piano lessons, ballet lessons, football lessons- sure, kids can do without all of those, but which parent would say to their kid they can't do ballet or football? Nobody would raise their kids on the cheap unless they had no choice.

    Anyone who thinks that parenting is not a full time job are talking out of their bottom, I reckon. And it's about time it was respected as the most important job an adult human being can ever do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Anyone who thinks that parenting is not a full time job are talking out of their bottom, I reckon. And it's about time it was respected as the most important job an adult human being can ever do.

    Being as that was clearly directed at me, I will say, again
    mist wrote:
    Fine, whatever. I've already said that I'm not going to debate that again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    No, that's babies. Which I suspect is where your confusion lies.

    of course. you see, after my grandma's kids left infancy, they disappeared/won the lottery/other thing that didn't happen.

    despite what you seem to think, i have watched a lot of people raise families. and you don't need a lot of money to do it well. of course it makes it easier, and of course most people would prefer to not have to worry about their finances, but it isn't a necessity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course it isn't a necessity to have wheelbarrow loads full of cash, but the less money you have, the harder it is. And whilst you don't need to have the ballet lessons, and two pairs of shoes, and new school uniforms, not having them does make life worse.

    It's so easy to get into the "I lived in a shoebox and it did me no harm!" argument, and of course it didn't do those people any harm. But things have moved on from living in one room houses, and going off to work when you're 14, and the price has risen accordingly. If you want your kids to do well at school then the computers and the well-stocked bookshelves are necessities.

    As the wife says, the cost of raising a child to 21 is over £160,000. Even if you scrimp it down to a quarter of that, it's still three or four years salary for many people. You shouldn't spend more than your budget, but the cost has risen fantastically since two generations ago. Mostly because kids don't go out to work at 14 any more, like my dad did, they go to uni and uni isn't free anymore.

    Not that money makes good parents, of course.
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