Home Politics & Debate
At The Mix, we want to make our services as helpful as we can. To do this, we’d love to ask you a few questions about you, your visit to The Mix and its impact. It should take only about 5-10 minutes to complete. Take this survey and get a chance at winning a £200 Amazon voucher​.
Come and join our Support Circle, every Tuesday, 8 - 9:30pm! Sign up here

UK & USA or UK & Europe

2

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Born Slippy makes me laugh.

    Some people here seem to think that the EU is a separate country or entity or something. It's weird.

    I'd say both, we need global co-operation IMO.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think what subject13 could have meant was that Britain did not involve itsselfin Europe mainlands affairs until the first world war when it's Empire was threatened.

    America did not dismantle the Empire it was already collapsing by the first world war - India was the main straw that broke the camels back.

    There has been some form of the EU since the 1920's and Britain has almost always been a part of it. There have always been people claiming that it is on its last legs (mainly right wing). These sorts want us to be completely independent, and except from the Euro I can see no benefits from leaving the European Union. We are a beurocratic country with very little raw industry left. We definitely benefit from close trading with the continent. By the way saying that you hate the French is a very small minded thing to say and sounds quite racist/bigoted. Same with saying you hate all Londoners or Irishmen - you have not met them all have you?

    British society is very much like America, although ten years behind in terms of obesity. We are more open minded in some ways and less in others. (We also have less crazy church people I think - but perhaps that is because we have less people to BE crazy). Has nobody noticed that *the government already is Americas lapdog*? I think it would be best to draw away from them as we have already started making more enemies that friends by following their lead on agressive foreign policies. And they are not the only superpower. Ever heard of a place called China?
    This is not meant to insult anyone and is only my opinionxx
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Born Slippy makes me laugh.

    Some people here seem to think that the EU is a separate country or entity or something. It's weird.

    I'd say both, we need global co-operation IMO.

    Uh well you can’t really deny that the EU has most of the attributes of a country. There’s an EU flag, EU Parliament, EU law and the European Court of Justice to ensure it’s applied across member states and the European Anthem. Although far more concerning is that membership of the EU in its present form destroys the principle of parliamentary sovereignty. What the British population voted for and what the EU is now are two very different things making our membership of the EU quite undemocratic. A referendum is long overdue.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Uh well you can’t really deny that the EU has most of the attributes of a country. There’s an EU flag, EU Parliament, EU law and the European Court of Justice to ensure it’s applied across member states and the European Anthem.

    In that case, Man Utd is a country. It's all bollocks. If it really existed you wouldn't need those symbols to convince people something was there.
    What the British population voted for and what the EU is now are two very different things making our membership of the EU quite undemocratic.

    The whole thing's a fucking con to let thugs put their hands in your pockets.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Seeing as nobody else in Europe is making or ever appears to make such claims, which one of the following is true:

    a) The citizens of 24 European countries are all stupid and don't realise their nations are about to lose all their power to "the EU" and cease to exist, and it is only the British who can see this impending danger

    b) The citizens of 24 European countries are in fact aware of this danger but they actually don't care for their nations, their independence and history and are happy to see them disappear

    c) Not such thing is actually going to happen and it is some people in Britain who are just hopelessly clueless/deluded or living in a parallel universe if they believe that is what is happening


    So which one is it then?


    yeh however im under the impression we joined europe to be trade partners, not random law and tax and redistribution centres :p just business regulation and removal of trade tariffs etc

    the CAP needs to be cut by well over a half in total, EASILY and redesigned so it's actually fair - it's beocming like the US federal governemnt in being a busybody overstretching itself to the detriment of its citizens


    im all for leaving the EU and setting up a trading bloc with the eastern european countries which is simple and effective

    the EU as we know it is, and many of its mechanism is extremely useless and serve only to employ even more bureaucrats (on top of diplomats and whitehall :lol: ) - if you saw how complicated some of the things it likes to try and define are
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd go with Europe... We could do with becoming a little bit more bilingual too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Weak - No world influence, No Military of worth, No strength, Dependent on other nations, Poverty as well perhaps.

    Pathetic - No "free" elections or true freedoms, Mass Poverty, Dependence on other nations, and in some countries but only some is poor human rights.

    As much as i dilike France, i wouldn't call France weak or pathetic. But i would for some of Easter Europe!

    Now, which country would say that of Britain? Go on, you said some would, but which? Why would any country call Britain, a globally powerful nation, that? It is just the same as how no one would say that about the USA or China or Germany with out people laughing at them.

    As for Historical Facts, Britain was not Considered part of Europe. Size means nothing in continental descriptions hence why Europe is so small and Britain was historically at least right up to the 20th century considered apart from Europe. In maps it was never ever labelled as Europe but a seperate land mass. I am just saying, it maybe Europe now, but it wasnt then, i mean why was it lebelled seperately on maps prior to the 20th century if it was actually just part of Europe? That makes no sense.

    Also, as much as having a rich cultural and historical heritage is good, and it is a good thing i admit, it means very little if most of the people of that country freeze and starve in the winter and live in terrible squaller. A rich culture hardly makes a nation strong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Europe :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I go between being pro-Europe and quite anti-Europe.
    If we could get all the free trade stuff without having to chuck money at it, then that'd be nice. But I'm not sure that would happen.
    I know it helps the poorer countries, but I'm selfish.

    On the other hand, paying in and getting money back in grants for museums etc. is better than the government spending it on missiles (or whatever else).

    Some of the EU laws and directives are useful too, especially when they could possibly stop our government pushing through more oppressive laws.
    "Extra" governement is still a pain, though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You like to keep digging yourself deeper into the hole, don't you subject13?
    subject13 wrote:
    Weak - No world influence, No Military of worth, No strength, Dependent on other nations, Poverty as well perhaps.
    How about morally weak? How about socially weak? Do you think Britain fares particularly better than some of the nations you have in mind? In some people's eyes in some of those nations you think so little of, Britain is weak.
    Pathetic - No "free" elections or true freedoms, Mass Poverty, Dependence on other nations, and in some countries but only some is poor human rights.

    As much as i dilike France, i wouldn't call France weak or pathetic. But i would for some of Easter Europe!

    Now, which country would say that of Britain? Go on, you said some would, but which? Why would any country call Britain, a globally powerful nation, that? It is just the same as how no one would say that about the USA or China or Germany with out people laughing at them.
    Pathetic- having an embarrasement of a Prime Minister and a country that is willing to be the Official Lapdog of America. Having a government introducing more Orwellian laws every day. Having a police executing Brazilian citizens on the Underground for "having Mongolian eyes". Having a public transport system that wouldn't be out of place in third world countries...

    As you can see subject13, similar like-minded people could be as happily be calling Britain 'weak and pathetic' as you are describing other nations. And you know what? They'd have as much 'right' to do so as you.

    Why don't simply admit that your remarks were wrong?

    As for Historical Facts, Britain was not Considered part of Europe. Size means nothing in continental descriptions hence why Europe is so small and Britain was historically at least right up to the 20th century considered apart from Europe. In maps it was never ever labelled as Europe but a seperate land mass. I am just saying, it maybe Europe now, but it wasnt then, i mean why was it lebelled seperately on maps prior to the 20th century if it was actually just part of Europe? That makes no sense.
    You are wrong. For as long as Europe has existed as a continent, Britain has been part of it. Or was Britain a separate Continent?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well geographically the UK is part of Europe, but that doesn't mean it has to be in the EU. Unless you know something about Swiss geography that I don't.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Well geographically the UK is part of Europe, but that doesn't mean it has to be in the EU. Unless you know something about Swiss geography that I don't.
    No of course it doesn't. But subject13 appeared to be implying that Britain wasn't part of Europe until well into the 20th century. As subject himself reminded us all earlier, the EU itself did not exist until a few decades ago. So does this mean that Europe did not exist until the 1960s?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    No of course it doesn't. But subject13 appeared to be implying that Britain wasn't part of Europe until well into the 20th century. As subject himself reminded us all earlier, the EU itself did not exist until a few decades ago. So does this mean that Europe did not exist until the 1960s?

    Nope. There were things in the 19th century called the 'Concerts Of Europe' in which the great European powers of the time Britain, France, Austro-Hungary, Russia and Prussia/Germany. Met up occasionly to negotitate things.

    So Britain has arguably been a part of Europe from at least the 19th or 18th century in a political fashion.

    I'll get back to my essay now....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    these little islands have been part and parcel of europe and beyond for thousands of years!
    romans anyone?

    in the last three hundred years alone we have battled with and beaten the french spanish dutch ...and then had cooperation of differing levels with them all.
    it takes a massive stretch of the imagination to believe we have had nothing to do with the continent!

    who the hell do you think makes up the british population?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You ignored my point on the Social and Cultural history of a nation, you know when you went on about morality.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Fortress Europe Forever! :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    in the last three hundred years alone we have battled with and beaten the french spanish dutch ...and then had cooperation of differing levels with them all.
    it takes a massive stretch of the imagination to believe we have had nothing to do with the continent!

    We had to boot the French from Spain only a few years after we defeated them both at Trafalgar.

    The Spanish hold a serious resentment against us a result...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Spliffie wrote:
    We had to boot the French from Spain only a few years after we defeated them both at Trafalgar.

    The Spanish hold a serious resentment against us a result...
    and now we have the opportunity to have a generation of two all under the same roof ...the same army ...sounds like an improvement from my point on the fence.

    imagine in the days of the crusades.
    do you know how much industry is involved in marching a thousand men across a continent?
    horses leather iron meat wine women tools weapons food food and fodder?

    thats a lot of trade.

    when the romans built the A5 ...the ammount of tradesmen across the continent that supplied and thrived is truly enormous.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i prefer not to think of what it will be like in the future, but like, looking back on it, who we decided to get with. I mean in years to come how will people look at all this iraq war etc. The way america does what it wants when it wants with out caring for law. Could people look back on that like some sort of evil world dominating regime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jonny8888 wrote:
    Could people look back on that like some sort of evil world dominating regime.
    look back?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jonny8888 wrote:
    yeah
    how far ...an hour?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ha no i mean like the way we're taught about hilter and germany and what not. I mean it sounds far fetched, but do you the people in germany when it was hapepning thought it was a big evil invasion. They thought they were doing what was right, just like everyone thinks that whats going on now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jonny8888 wrote:
    just like everyone thinks that whats going on now.
    sorry johny but i aint with everyone.

    what i see is america having been hijacked by some dynastic corporate industrial syndicate like never before in my lifetime.
    i believe whole heartedly these same people engineered the new york attacks.

    i believe i am witnessing the scariest and most worrying times since i arrived on this planet.

    i believe millions of people baclk in the thirties saw the same things then but ...were ridiculed or ignored.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well not everyone. But a lot of people. I'd say a fair few dont give a shit, and wont notice till its too late. I'd say a lot of people buy the whole we have to free people from evill shit. It is pretty worrying, but ther nowt we can do about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jonny8888 wrote:
    well not everyone. But a lot of people. I'd say a fair few dont give a shit, and wont notice till its too late. I'd say a lot of people buy the whole we have to free people from evill shit. It is pretty worrying, but ther nowt we can do about it.
    yeah ...not many give a shit ...not many are aware ...and your correct that most won't notice until it's too late.
    then there are those who hope what they are witnessing isn't realy happening ...or it will fall apart before it does to much damage ...or even worse ...things like that don't happen today.

    those in power have always known that joe bloggs is distracted by many things ...more so today than ever.

    it's as iff theres a script thast keeps being played out ...over and over again ...but getting ever more dangerous with each reincarnation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Seeing as nobody else in Europe is making or ever appears to make such claims, which one of the following is true:

    ?

    Other Europeans do make the same claims.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've never met or even heard of any (unless you're counting the likes of Le Pen, of course).

    If you have any experience or knowledge of European politics, you must know that there are infinitely more people in this country making such claims as "we're losing our sovereignty and are about to exist as a nation" than there have ever been in the Continent.

    As I said, I have never met or heard anyone making such absurd claims across the Channel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Despite the fact that further moves toward integration and loss of sovereignity were rejected overwhelmingly in referenda in two of the EU's founder states?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yep.
Sign In or Register to comment.