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Does the law protect teenagers too much?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
If an under 18 year old gets blind drunk, and then assaults another person, they will get away with it. Now, I know Im going to have those who appose any form of incarceration because it does more damage than good having a go at me, and I agree with them. Prison is basically a school for criminals, where you can make all the contacts you'll ever need.
However. Teenagers more and more are being encouraged by the state to break the law. In theory, every person should take responsibility for themselves and that should be it. But when a lot of these kids are causing nuisance and provoking over 18s - harassment, intimidation, etc. and get away with it, if you did what 'felt' right by protecting your family and moving them along, either by force or words, you'd be the one that got in trouble, and they'd be laughing.
Because the criminal justice system is a complete and utter joke. In fact, this country is. Its full of bloody retards. And I've always been the one in a discussion to defend them - they come from broken homes more often than not and are victims themselves of abuse and neglect - but theres so many of them now the quality of life for everyone else is seriously being affected.
Ive wrote to my MP about this before, about what the country was doing to control the worsening (not a real word, I know
) of teenagers attitudes and behaviours. He didnt reply, but sent a policeman round to inform me about the local kerfuws. Which hasnt lead to an improvement at all.
Its ok when you're sat on the end of an internet forum listening to me moan, but when day in day out they're causing hassle - we've been receiving threatening and abusive phonecalls for a couple of weeks but the people making them are 15 year old girls, and my mum has gone round to try to speak to their mum but she's actually encouraging them to make the calls because its funny (threatening to kill someone and firebomb their house, maybe ive just got a poor sense of humour).
People in this country are bloody mental, it seems to me.
However. Teenagers more and more are being encouraged by the state to break the law. In theory, every person should take responsibility for themselves and that should be it. But when a lot of these kids are causing nuisance and provoking over 18s - harassment, intimidation, etc. and get away with it, if you did what 'felt' right by protecting your family and moving them along, either by force or words, you'd be the one that got in trouble, and they'd be laughing.
Because the criminal justice system is a complete and utter joke. In fact, this country is. Its full of bloody retards. And I've always been the one in a discussion to defend them - they come from broken homes more often than not and are victims themselves of abuse and neglect - but theres so many of them now the quality of life for everyone else is seriously being affected.
Ive wrote to my MP about this before, about what the country was doing to control the worsening (not a real word, I know
) of teenagers attitudes and behaviours. He didnt reply, but sent a policeman round to inform me about the local kerfuws. Which hasnt lead to an improvement at all.Its ok when you're sat on the end of an internet forum listening to me moan, but when day in day out they're causing hassle - we've been receiving threatening and abusive phonecalls for a couple of weeks but the people making them are 15 year old girls, and my mum has gone round to try to speak to their mum but she's actually encouraging them to make the calls because its funny (threatening to kill someone and firebomb their house, maybe ive just got a poor sense of humour).
People in this country are bloody mental, it seems to me.
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Comments
Taking people's right to defend themselves away is stupid, unless you plan to be aggressively pursuing them yourself. The reason it's been done the whole "touch = assault garbage" way is the people pretending to be the state are the ones most likely to be on the receiving end of any citizens violence.
The whole thing is fucked up. If you look at it from the point of view that it's someone protecting their investment, it makes a lot more sense. Every law that is passed has more to do with improving productivity/investment protection than justice.
School is a prison for children, while we are on. Was just reading "Moab is my Washpot" by Stephen Fry and he says that prison is exactly the same as a boarding school.
Which is why this shit doesn't work. You, and all the other "good citizens" who play by the rules and generally are blameless now have curfews, will be menaced if you defend yourself/ Does any of this apply to criminals? No. Whay would making more laws stop people who don't obey the ones you have? Fucking ridiculous idea.
Do you have a link/evidence to back this up please?
Personal experience. I looked at a criminal statistics website for you but couldnt understand it.
Our office is full of teenagers who get serious penalties for committing serious crimes. Three years for kicking someone in the head is hardly being lenient on a sixteen-year-old boy now, is it?
Shy Boy, not for the first time you are talking utter tripe about this matter. I suggest you toddle off and read about what Brian Paddick, the best copper in the Met, has to say about "Victor Meldrew Syndrome" and how it is destroying relations between young people and the rest of society.
I'm afraid this is typical of the people who read the Daily Nazi as gospel instead of actually watching what's going on around them.
So you think a young person should be treated exactly the same as an adult, even if they're not one?
So you think fifteen-year-old children should be put in an adult prison?
Thank fuck you don't run the Prison Service.
Have you been inside a HMYOI? I seriously suspect that you have not. I, on the other hand, have been inside them regularly, and I defy anyone who thinks that they are a "holiday camp".
So you think all "assaults" should be punished equally, without regard to what happened?
Thank fuck you're not a judge,
And this just illustrates what a clueless clot you are.
A CRO isn't "meaningless".
A suspended sentence is more serious than a CRO, as it means that if you commit any further offences you will be sent to prison for a very very long time.
I must say though that the law in Sweden is incredibly merciful; there is no death penalty, murder usually gives 8 years, and they are let go for good behaviour after half the sentence. Prison chambers have satellite television and book shelves. This I think is just absurd - criminals probably have a better time inside than outside.
Teenagers normally get fined for small crimes - rarely do they get sent to prison. Larger crimes however result in a youth detention center, which I don't see the point of having them there. By that I mean Swedish youth detention centers.
Where did i say that they should be treated exactly the same?? again, where did i say that they should be put in an adult prison? i have for you information been inside Gloucester's prison, and if you could possibly bring yourself to re-read the whole of my post, you will notice that it is merely stating facts. i am actully quite angry with the fact that u state that everyone here is clueless. you are not the only person here who is in the law, i am just about to complete my final year of law in liverpool, with my first year being mainly based on and around the criminal justice system. however you will not have this as i do not feel there is any need in broadcasting it in an attempt to belittle others! and i again, think that "very very long time" is extremely patronising, and you should perhaps get down off your high horse and take that huge chip off you shoulder!...and when did i use the phrase holiday camp?! hmmm...i think that's never!
then how come kermit was the only one so far to effectively disrepute the allegations made within the origional post
I don't think throwing a fifteen year old behind bars in an adult prison would help... A lot of these youngsters have ADHD, come from abusive families, have parents who drink a lot or take drugs... maybe they need to be listened to rather than treated like demons.
By6 moaning that younger people get "lesser" sentences than adults.
By disparaging the Young Offenders Institutes. Which is a bizarre thing to do, go and have a look at places like HMYOI Feltham.
No it wasn't. It was stating an opinion.
Then you'd know that a suspended sentence is more severe than a community-based punishment. You'd know that both are a very very long way from being a "slap on the wrist". Especially since suspended sentences also have a supervisory element now.
And I hate to be rude, but studying is not the same as working in it. I'm not using it to blow my own trumpet, but I am using it to give better personal illustrations than "my brother's mate did x and got a £50 fine!" which other posters have used. I'm not denigrating your experience, but reading the books isn't the same as meeting the crying teenager in the Crown Court cells.
What usually happens in those cases?
Interesting.
Just out of interest, Kermit, how many cases have you seen of someone "taking the law into their own hands?
Thats great, but for every 10 people who get pissed and smash someones window, the police will catch a few of them, and most will be given a verbal caution. In my eyes, this is sending out the wrong message. Whilst I believe we need a tolerant society, as in, we cant send soemone down for making a mistake, I also think people - particularly teenagers and kids who are still forming their attitudes about society and what they can do - need a very strong message that its not ok to make a mistake. That it is wrong, and completely entirely unacceptable to cause damage to other people's property, to cause damage to other people's bodies, to intimidate other people or even littering. In most instances unless there is compelling evidence (i.e. CCTV footage) then the police will let it go. Even if there is, often the police will let it go.
And I couldnt comment on three years, when I dont know anything about the case. If he was given three years with an 18 month 'real sentence' for good behaviour for stamping on someones head so badly they were hospitalised and nearly killed, I think that is quite lenient. If however, they have been given a minimum of three years in a maximum security youth detention centre - if such a thing exists - when they were attacked and kicked the other guy to the head during the scrap, and then scarpered, and the other guy was completely fine, then it is not lenient.
I am actually quite a young person though, believe it or not. I enjoy drinking sociably, having parties, playing pranks with my mates - but I understand there is a line between your own space and freedom to do and piss about as you like, and then invading into other peoples space, freedom and the like. A lot of young people dont. On the list of the police's priorities though, antisocial behaviour by young people isnt that high up, but when they realise they can effectively get away with it, it can in many cases influence their behaviour for the rest of their life. And for the record, I actually dont go around putting on a voice saying 'I dont believe it!'.
How interesting. I dont read the daily mail, or the sun, in fact I dont really read newspapers that often. My opinions are formed on what I see and hear.
And just if you werent aware, I might not be as old as you, or have a law degree, or work in a solicitors office etc. but I've still treated all members on here with respect whatever they have to say, and as such expect the same treatment from other members - so I find your patronising attitude offensive.
Of course the police won't catch everyone, but that isn't "getting away with it". A prosecution can only go ahead if the CPS feel there is a 51% chance of securing a conviction, so if there's no proof they won't do anything. Do you suggest they should do otherwise?
Why do you think some youths behave badly? Do you think it is because youths today are "worse"? Do you think the birch makes a difference?
What is different between now, and say 50 years ago. Employment? Poverty? Do you think that people who are socially excluded will behave sociably? Do you think that people who are socially excluded should behave sociably?
Do you think prison will make a difference? Or do you think combatting high unemployment and social exclusion will make a difference?
Don't believe everything you read.
A pal of mine's brother (who's under 18) looks like he's heading to Polmot YOI after slashing someone in a fight.
Obviously Scots law is different, but I'd presume taking it to that level will have legal consequences regardles. If you call the polis about the phone calls then i'm sure they'd do something.
Of course they will, at the end of the day the police are about statistics, not protecting the public. They'll pick somebody up for smoking pot, but won't help you out if your house is broken in to, or if you were spiked or attacked. That way they can say that they've caught drugs dealers, whilst at the same time statistics might suggest that assult has gone down, depending on how you interpret them.