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UK & USA or UK & Europe

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
What do you think is better for the long term future of the UK?

So strengthen ties to the USA or become closer with the other countries in Europe?


I really think the UK is like piggy in the middle ...

We probably can relate to the Americans much more easily, with a common language and similar cultures, but we're geographically much closer to the other nations in Europe.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We will never be truly European because we cannot bring ourselves to be lapdogs.
    America is too far away to be lapdogs to them and most of America dont even know what Britain is.
    Personally i say we play both ends off the middle!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    >insert the usual argument here<
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Both.

    But when it comes to foreign policy and military activities the UK must choose the US every time.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Invade all :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I hate the French for a start.

    Going by old-fashioned common sense the European Union is clearly on its last legs. The EU beauracrats know this, so they brush off any hint of dissent and carry on as if the constitution had not been democratically thrown out by two civilised countries. Amusingly leftist types in Britain are a little slower and publicly refuse to acknowledge the defeat. Normal people can see through this opaque shield of liberal stupidity, so naturally they withhold the promised referendum.
    Of course, Born Slippy, of course. According to the europhobes the EU has been dying for the last 4 decades. It's kind of a miracle on the scale of the good Lord Jesus coming back from the dead that the EU still exists at all, if the gloomy predictions from the nay-sayers are to be believed... :rolleyes:

    The EU is here to stay. Fact.

    Britain has always been and will always be European and an integral member and part of Europe. Fact.

    And it is in Britain's best interest to remain at the heart of Europe and its institutions. Fact.

    Having good relations with the US does not do any harm, and Britain can in fact perform a beneficial role bridging America and Europe.

    However it must not be America's satellite and obey its last command, and it must stand up for itself when it needs to (instead of willingly allowing itself to be fucked up the arse by our Master to the west, for instance during the steel tariff incident, when it was in fact the EU that saved our bacon). When it comes to defence or common foreign policy, if there are different positions between Europe and the US we must always be chose our European allies- seeing as their interests and ours are the closest.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The EU is here to stay. Fact.

    The EU doesn't exist. Fact.
    Britain, Europe, US, America

    Don't exist. Apart from that your post is sound. :rolleyes:
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,169 Skive's The Limit
    Both.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This message is hidden because klintock is on your ignore list.
    Aaaahhh.... :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    we have no chance of being on an equal footing with america ...so going that direction means being a lap dog ...it couldn't be any other way.
    in europe we can be forge a partneship of equals.
    does anyone honestly believe that we can influence american policy or trade with them on favourable terms?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    . you want us to be ruled by the EU, I would rather we governed ourselves. .
    who is this eu that will rule us?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh god don't ask questions like that Rolly, you'll expose the fiction.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quite right. The real difference is you want us to be ruled by the EU, I would rather we governed ourselves. In no way does this mean we have to be North Americas lap dog.
    Seeing as nobody else in Europe is making or ever appears to make such claims, which one of the following is true:

    a) The citizens of 24 European countries are all stupid and don't realise their nations are about to lose all their power to "the EU" and cease to exist, and it is only the British who can see this impending danger

    b) The citizens of 24 European countries are in fact aware of this danger but they actually don't care for their nations, their independence and history and are happy to see them disappear

    c) Not such thing is actually going to happen and it is some people in Britain who are just hopelessly clueless/deluded or living in a parallel universe if they believe that is what is happening


    So which one is it then?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Quit the EU, negotiate a free trade agreement with EU members through the EU - since Britain imports more than it exports from EU states and will do for the foreseeable future the EU would agree to this. Then apply to join NAFTA and enjoy free trade with the USA, Canada and Mexico too.

    As our traditional ally though and the world’s only superpower we’re fortunate to enjoy a special relationship with America. It’s important that we maintain it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Most European nations are small, weak and pathetic and to be part of the EU is an improvement, hence why they can look past the lack of sovereignty and independence.

    The powerful European countries control the EU so they have no reason to want to avoid it.

    Britian is the only nation near Europe that is both strong and would lose out if it became a lapdog to the EU institution.

    Also;
    The EU has not always existed. FACT!

    Britian has not always been apart of Europe. FACT!

    Also, the EU has not always been dying for the past 4 decades and i do not know any Europhobe who has said that constantly for 4 decades. The EU is on its last legs now as it is about to start incorporating non-European nations like Turkey into it and is going to be flung into extremely high debts by having to pay the way of re-development of poor and insignificant nations of Eastern Europe!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    Most European nations are small, weak and pathetic
    Oh dear dear fucking dear... :rolleyes:

    No doubt there are similarily-minded people in the Continent saying the very same thing of Britain, subject13...

    I'd love to put all of you in a room and see how you get on.
    The EU has not always existed. FACT!
    So?
    Britian has not always been apart of Europe. FACT!
    If you are talking about 40 million years ago, when the continent land masses were rather different, you might be right (and even so, I think if anything Britain was even a bigger part of Europe then!). Otherwise, I really can't see how you could say that... :confused:
    Also, the EU has not always been dying for the past 4 decades and i do not know any Europhobe who has said that constantly for 4 decades. The EU is on its last legs now as it is about to start incorporating non-European nations like Turkey into it and is going to be flung into extremely high debts by having to pay the way of re-development of poor and insignificant nations of Eastern Europe!
    I've been hearing such gloomy predictions thoroughout my entire life.

    And the damned EU will still not collapse.

    WILL THEY HURRY UP? I'VE GOT THINGS TO DO!! CAN'T WAIT AROUND ALL MY LIFE! :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As our traditional ally though and the world’s only superpower we’re fortunate to enjoy a special relationship with America. It’s important that we maintain it.
    If by 'special relationship' you mean being used, manipulated, abused, patronised, and given fuck all in return, then we've got a very special relationship alright...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    We probably can relate to the Americans much more easily, with a common language and similar cultures, but we're geographically much closer to the other nations in Europe.

    To be hinest I don't think that English and American culture are that similar.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    If by 'special relationship' you mean being used, manipulated, abused, patronised, and given fuck all in return, then we've got a very special relationship alright...
    Someone's been watching Love Actually :p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think we need to move away from the USA in the military sense, lest we get drawn into wars that are none of our business. We are so close to Europe geographically, even connected via the channel tunnel, then it seems to make much more sense to tighten our political ties with them. If we did what is the US going to do about it? Invade Britain? :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is just the latest example of what the US government really thinks of our much trumpeted 'special relationship':

    Britain is the US' main partner in the construction of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jet. We have an 'access all areas' partnership (or at least, that's what we thought we had...) which means since we're building the aircraft together we should have full access to the weapons and avionics technology used.

    Incredibly, the Americans are refusing to provide Britain with the technology. Which means that we would always be dependent on the Americans to carry out weapons upgrades, repairs and manteneance of our own planes.

    Britain is now threatening to pull out of the project altogether (and lose several billion Pounds in the process incidentally).

    So much for special relationships. So much for our 'cousins and friends'.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well i was corrected your "facts" Alladin since you made such a thing out of saying they were Facts.

    Europe didnt even exist until it was decided to call it a continent and not until world war 2 ended did Britain decide it was a part of Europe, rpior to that Britain was an Island state or an Empire! Get your facts right if your going to call them facts and stop spouting tired, singl-minded drivel.

    Well, i do not know how old you are Aladdin but to have heard people say the EU is dying all your life must make you young. I am only 21 and i have not even heard that sort of thing all my life.

    By the way, what country in East Europe would call Britain pathetic and insignificant??? Name one...Czech Republic? Poland? Ukraine? I can not think of one of those East European countries that would say that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well i was corrected your "facts" Alladin since you made such a thing out of saying they were Facts.

    Forget it mate, everything Al says is a fact, anything not agreed with is false. Especially when there is no evidence. :rolleyes:

    United Kingdom as it currently is (i.e. the largest corporate fiction in the arbitary geographical area called for convenience also the united kingdom) came into being in 1948. Only it didn't it can't logically be done.

    Luckily hyperemotional people like Al can be relied on to bridge the gap with feelings and leave those pesky facts behind.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    Well i was corrected your "facts" Alladin since you made such a thing out of saying they were Facts.

    Europe didnt even exist until it was decided to call it a continent
    :confused:
    and not until world war 2 ended did Britain decide it was a part of Europe
    Er... Britain has been part of Europe for as long as Europe has existed.
    rpior to that Britain was an Island state or an Empire!
    So?

    Do you actually understand the concept of countries and continents? Methinks you're getting a tad confused. The British Isles are and have always been part of Europe.
    Get your facts right if your going to call them facts and stop spouting tired, singl-minded drivel.
    Oh the irony! :D
    Well, i do not know how old you are Aladdin but to have heard people say the EU is dying all your life must make you young. I am only 21 and i have not even heard that sort of thing all my life.
    Lucky you then.
    By the way, what country in East Europe would call Britain pathetic and insignificant??? Name one...Czech Republic? Poland? Ukraine? I can not think of one of those East European countries that would say that.
    Why not? You apparently believes there are countries in Europe that are ''weak and pathetic''. What makes you think there aren't similarily deluded individuals in the Continent?

    Unless of course you would like to explain to us all exacly why some countries are "weak and pathetic", and why Britain couldn't possibly be called that.

    Please do enlighten us.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Unless of course you would like to explain to us all exacly why some countries are "weak and pathetic", and why Britain couldn't possibly be called that.

    Please do enlighten us.

    Countries like Belgium and Luxemburg could be described as ‘weak’ in the sense that if they were not part of the EU they would barely have any influence in the world.

    Britain meanwhile as a major player in NATO, member of G7/8, having a large and powerful armed forces, being a member of the UN security council and through the Commonwealth has greater influence than any other EU member, only France comes near.

    And like it or not Aladdin without Britain the EU would be a lot weaker. Britain meanwhile in my opinion would be a lot stronger without the EU.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Countries like Belgium and Luxemburg could be described as ‘weak’ in the sense that if they were not part of the EU they would barely have any influence in the world.
    Britain meanwhile as a major player in NATO, member of G7/8, having a large and powerful armed forces, being a member of the UN security council and through the Commonwealth has greater influence than any other EU member, only France comes near.
    There are many perception of weaknesses. Moral, cultural, military, political, social... All nations are weak, from a certain point or view or other. Britain included.

    I found the 'weak and pathetic' remark by subject13 not only utter bollocks but prejudiced, ignorant and offensive.

    And like it or not Aladdin without Britain the EU would be a lot weaker. Britain meanwhile in my opinion would be a lot stronger without the EU.
    If you believe that, fair enough. I believe, without a doubt, that both Britain and the EU would be the poorer without each other.

    Remove the trade advantages, watch millions of skilled workers having to leave Britain since they no longer have a right to stay, and see how well Britain would do outside the EU...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I found the 'weak and pathetic' remark by subject13 not only utter bollocks but prejudiced, ignorant and offensive.

    You're right there. And while some European countries would be weak in terms of influence without the EU they're certainly not pathetic and are strong in many other ways; culturally and socially for instance..
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