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No Confidence

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Here's something interesting going on at the University of London - we don't usually talk student politics here so I thought I'd raise it.

Last year (November) some comments were made by a member of UCL Union's Council that were clearly homophobic (such as, "if my son brought someone home and said, 'this is my boyfriend Kevin I'm so happy with him,' I would take out a big gun and make sure Kevin would live with him in the place where Buttiglione thinks sinners go. Pretty hot I reckon"*)

A motion of No Confidence to remove him from the Equal Opportunities Committee failed last Feb.

Since then he was elected to an even higher position on UCL Union's Council (that of General Secretary) and was elected as Chair of ULU (University of London Union) Council. In response to this, because they disapproved of his election, people within both Unions have tabled votes of no confidence. At ULU, after 3 hours' debate, it passed and he was removed on 14/11. At UCL Union, the motion was tabled in a bit of a shambolic and last-minute way and so was withdrawn but he resigned at the close of the meeting this Monday.

My questions are as follows;
1) Does public homophobia (and incitement of homophobic mercy killing) constitute gross misconduct?
2) Should something that happened before the last Union elections have been used to remove someone from office through a No Confidence vote?

It's something I've been pondering since I heard the news.

*repeated to best of my memory

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can understand your reaction, but what was the context of the joke?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It wasn't a joke. It was a comment made in a thread about homosexuality on UCLU's message boards.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely it was a joke??

    What was the context?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    Here's something interesting going on at the University of London - we don't usually talk student politics here so I thought I'd raise it.

    Last year (November) some comments were made by a member of UCL Union's Council that were clearly homophobic (such as, "if my son brought someone home and said, 'this is my boyfriend Kevin I'm so happy with him,' I would take out a big gun and make sure Kevin would live with him in the place where Buttiglione thinks sinners go. Pretty hot I reckon"*)

    A motion of No Confidence to remove him from the Equal Opportunities Committee failed last Feb.

    Since then he was elected to an even higher position on UCL Union's Council (that of General Secretary) and was elected as Chair of ULU (University of London Union) Council. In response to this, because they disapproved of his election, people within both Unions have tabled votes of no confidence. At ULU, after 3 hours' debate, it passed and he was removed on 14/11. At UCL Union, the motion was tabled in a bit of a shambolic and last-minute way and so was withdrawn but he resigned at the close of the meeting this Monday.

    My questions are as follows;
    1) Does public homophobia (and incitement of homophobic mercy killing) constitute gross misconduct?
    2) Should something that happened before the last Union elections have been used to remove someone from office through a No Confidence vote?

    It's something I've been pondering since I heard the news.

    *repeated to best of my memory


    nothing of this in pi magazine :s
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ---
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    nothing of this in pi magazine :s
    Pi's going to print at the mo apparently. Cheesegrater missed it, too.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    I can understand your reaction, but what was the context of the joke?
    Here's what the student magazine reported in last March

    Here is the original text
    Luca wrote:
    Face it most parents will tell their children that they do not be gay or lesbian. Some careful parents make the democracy very explicit, like a dad saying "son, I keep a gun in my desk. If you ever discover being gay, use it on you before telling me"

    I think from reading this, you'll see it wasn't a joke. I've just seen that for the first time and it shocked me!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmm... never heard about that. However, we have virtually nothing to do with ULU down here, hence we never know about what's going on. Not that we care much.
    Indeed, the last time our president tried to attend a ULU MedGroup meeting the Northern Line closed down...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Know exactly who you're talking about. He is that little shit who lived in Ramsay at the same time as I did, and he used to knock really loudly on my friend's door in the early hours, among other things, started to get really out of hand. I saw something about the no confidence bit in the latest edition of Pi.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dr_carter wrote:
    Hmm... never heard about that. However, we have virtually nothing to do with ULU down here, hence we never know about what's going on. Not that we care much.
    Indeed, the last time our president tried to attend a ULU MedGroup meeting the Northern Line closed down...

    St Georges doesn't count as a London university :p:D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:

    My questions are as follows;
    1) Does public homophobia (and incitement of homophobic mercy killing) constitute gross misconduct?
    2) Should something that happened before the last Union elections have been used to remove someone from office through a No Confidence vote?

    *repeated to best of my memory

    I'd say technically no, if people voted for him again.

    However, everybody knows that UCL/ULU elections are a total and utter farce, with very little mature democracy involved. The amount of times I've been harrassed and pleaded with to vote (usually by the candidate or his/her toady) as I walk through the union...

    Always tell them I'm not going to vote because I don't know any of the candidates, their track records, or what they stand for. Or how the system works. How could you possibly make an informed choice as to who to vote for if you don't have that information? I suspect most of the votes cast in these elections are just throwaway votes, people who walk past, are persuaded to put a tick and their ID number on a card and never think about it again.

    Call me a cynic but I think almost everyone involved in student politics (at least here in London) is a mecenary bastard or careerist hack, looking for something to cram on their CV.

    And don't even get me started on Pi magazine... :o
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ahem... we're now

    St. George's, University of London

    and who always provides the largest, rowdiest crowd for 999@MoS?

    Plus our degrees say 'University of London'...

    Plus we compete in the ULBC regattas, and row out of ULBC boathouse...

    Plus we are IN London...

    Meh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You're south of the river, therefore, you don't exist :p [/zone 1 snob]
    The amount of times I've been harrassed and pleaded with to vote (usually by the candidate or his/her toady) as I walk through the union...

    Good reason not to go ;) They still working on the Duck and Dive?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    GKT are south of the river
    mind you, they're twats anyway...

    so are ICSM (twats, not south of the river)

    Ditto Barts/London

    Note that RUMS is the only medical school we like...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Note that RUMS is the only medical school we like...

    I'd like to think we're a likeable bunch of people, but I know that's a big lie :yes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You have some VERY attractive freshers this year

    Hence the Boat Club RUMS girls, George's boys freshers social i'm organising...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Still working on Duck and Dive, yes. I'm craving enchilladas.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, it is unacceptable, and he should have lost his job.

    He should also be spat at in the street, and have his face rubbed in dog mess.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think he should be removed... However, there's no laws against incitement of homophobic hatred in this country.

    If such thoughts were directed at black people or Muslims then he would be booted out.

    It's society's selective compassion again... LGBT rights still have a way to go.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, it is unacceptable, and he should have lost his job.

    True enough, it's deplorably unprofessional. If he was a builder or something it wouldn't matter of course.
    He should also be spat at in the street, and have his face rubbed in dog mess.

    :lol:

    You probably don't see the irony.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    You probably don't see the irony.

    Oh, don't worry, irony was being fully used there.

    Such a shame intonation can't be used on the net.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In that case......

    :lol:

    Nicely done.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Student politics always seems to attract extremists and wierdos on the left as well as the right.
    I remember the Guild of students in Liverpool called an "emergency general meeting" to discuss something that was going on in the Midddle East. (How the nasty Israelis were using helicopter gunships to kill innocent Palestinian suicide bombers or some such nonsense). Unsurprisingly it was called off when nobody turned up.

    99% of students are just there to get a degree and maybe have a few drunken nights on the town. They don't care much about politics and even less about student politics. Those that vote in student elections are therefore the aforementioned wierdos and extremists who just vote to get their mates into the union councils.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's sad, and reflective of a generally apathetic society, that students are more interested in the price of beer than in how their institutions are run. I voted in Union elections and I'm not a weirdo or an extremist! It's important, student politics are important.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    piccolo wrote:
    It's important, student politics are important.
    Why?

    Blair has turned a university education into a service to be purchased from the government, and it's changed the attitude of students to the institution imho. I agree with Slog that student politics are of no interest to most students these days (if they ever have been) because people are more politically aware and more cynical in the knowledge that whatever they do will make absolutely no difference.

    I've been on staff-student committees over the years and after a while you get used to the fact that decisions you are supposedly consulted on have already been made. Any small victory you think you achieve is actually just what they are prepared to give anyway.

    Don't waste your time and energy with student union politics.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, I'm an idealist. I know that some things the NUS discuss are just to boost their sense of self-importance (I am not blind, the NUS LGBT Campaign passing a motion condemning city academies won't exactly force Blair to re-examine his policy on the privatisation of education) but even if you don't achieve anything politically I do think the experience and the learning curve are both useful in Student Unions.
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