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drug crime

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well my view, which has been base don fact by the way and going on those models is the Temperance model.

    Though I could accept some of the features of the Disease model and Social education model.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Well my view, which has been base don fact by the way and going on those models is the Temperance model.

    Really? :eek: No wonder you talk to so much bollocks on the subject.
    Walkindude wrote:
    Though I could accept some of the features of the Disease model and Social education model.

    The most widely used model in drugs services is the bio-psycho-social model. The disease model is far too simplistic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    as I said, some aspects.

    I didn't see the bio-psycho-social model on there balgsta, where was that one? lol

    mix and match eh? same as me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    as I said, some aspects.

    I didn't see the bio-psycho-social model on there balgsta, where was that one? lol

    mix and match eh? same as me.

    someone should teach you how to use a search engine
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    heroin lsd cocaine ...all as harmeless as smarties!
    i think all five year olds should be taught how to shoot up.
    drugs should be given out free in schools.
    those who don't wish to take drugs for pleasure should bloody well be forced to do so.

    harmless as smarties walkin ...but watch the smarties ...they can be fattening. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well I used the link you gave me Blagsta.

    Hilarious Morrocan roll, hilarious.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    You take heroing, feels good, mixes with your body, the next time you rthinking you want some heorin, thats a biological response. Thats addiction.

    There have been other studies besides that one on drugscope that suggest drusg are far more addictive then that link you put up suggests.

    So heroin biologically changes you from the first hit? Any evidence for this? Which area of the body changes?

    I think that Drugscope is normally right on the money, do you have links to other research which says different?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    as I have said I am not as annal renetive as some people.

    You really think when you shoto heroing there are NO biological changes whatsoever?????
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    You really think when you shoto heroing there are NO biological changes whatsoever?????

    Yes, while the drug is working, but there is no physical biological change to the body which lasts longer than the action of the drug. The person does not change forever after having one hit, which is what you were suggesting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no it wasn;t at all, I never said that. Get it right.

    I simply said there was a biological change. Biref or whatever. Its a change, a change is all and a change is all thats needed. Its enought o register. Enought o say "hmm, that was different" It doesn't matter if it all goes back to normal. The sensation is relaised and thats enough for a lot of people.

    of course thats where personal responibility comes on as well. Self control, will. You don't have to take the drug again at this stage, though many do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you are saying that its an experience, one which people dont forget, that they might like. That's startling news isnt it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    whats your point??
    you dragging things round in circles. Its pointless. What are YOU trying to say about drugs?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    whats your point??
    you dragging things round in circles. Its pointless. What are YOU trying to say about drugs?

    What I am trying to say is the big reason drugs are dangerous is because of the law.

    All the major drugs used, cannabis, esctacy, heroin and to a lesser extent cocaine are all significantly more dangerous because of the law.

    The law is no deterant, it is a costly waste of time, it makes the situation worse, leads to more deaths and harm.

    In short, the law is an arse and should be removed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How is the law dangerous. Explain exactly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    How is the law dangerous. Explain exactly.

    Lets take the two most commonly used drugs as an example;

    Cannabis; This is grown without quality control, no one checks what fertiliser is being used, what chemicals or pesticides are going on it.

    And hash from over sea's, well thats known for having crap/dirt/tar whatever in it.

    So without the quality control which legal supply would have the risk to the consumer is greater. And of course all the proceeds are going to criminals.

    Ecstacy; This is made in back street labs by chemists who only half know what they are doing. The pills are of suspect quality and unknown strength. All of this increases the risk to the consumer, where as MDMA in a known dosage isnt anywhere near as risky.

    Also, again all the profits go in the hands of criminals.

    Do you see a pattern here?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not really.

    Unless you are suggesting the government tislef or allows comapnies to produce these drusg and then seel or give them away, it wouldn't change any of what you described.

    Least they tolerate all the weed coming in from Morro and don't do owt to stop it coz they'd rather have that government in then the extremists.


    Yes the criminal eliminate is bad and obviously the shit mixed with drugs is terrible but making them all legal isn't gonna change anything.

    Its the elimination of the drugs themselves that is the key. That and attitudes to them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Unless you are suggesting the government tislef or allows comapnies to produce these drusg and then seel or give them away, it wouldn't change any of what you described.

    Yes the criminal eliminate is bad and obviously the shit mixed with drugs is terrible but making them all legal isn't gonna change anything.

    Its the elimination of the drugs themselves that is the key. That and attitudes to them.

    What part of legal supply didnt you understand, thats exactly what I do want, it would reduce the risk to the consumer and the hassle to the public.

    Why wouldn't making them legal change anything? Surely it would remove a large chunk of the criminal market which I think would be a good thing.

    The drugs can not be eliminated, I presume you read that report I suggest to you, thats the government admiting they will never win.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Well I used the link you gave me Blagsta.

    Hilarious Morrocan roll, hilarious.

    I gave you a link to a search engine. If you want to educate yourself about something, its up to you to do some work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It would only create yet another supplier. And is it even morally right??

    Here is this big bad thing, we can't figure out how to deal with it, so we'll just legalkise it and that takes the problems of us.

    So when you have a bad thing, you say its ok? A child does a bad thing and you say thats fine??

    thats wack logic and idealistic I think.

    Legalisation is not some magic wand for the worlds problems.

    I read the pages blagsta.
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    Walkindude wrote:
    And is it even morally right??

    Are drugs morally wrong then?
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    It would only create yet another supplier. And is it even morally right??

    Here is this big bad thing, we can't figure out how to deal with it, so we'll just legalkise it and that takes the problems of us.

    So when you have a bad thing, you say its ok? A child does a bad thing and you say thats fine??

    thats wack logic and idealistic I think.

    Legalisation is not some magic wand for the worlds problems.

    The point is, that the law is making the situation worse.
    Walkindude wrote:
    I read the pages blagsta.

    All 13,900 of them?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no blagsta.


    is it though? is it making it worse? or is that what the lgealistaion argument wants to believe?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    no blagsta.

    So you didn't "read the pages" then. Make your mind up.
    Walkindude wrote:
    is it though? is it making it worse? or is that what the lgealistaion argument wants to believe?

    Yes, it is. People are always going to use drugs. They always have done, always will. Its part of being human. So, instead of making them illegal, impure, expensive, controlled by gangsters, why not make them legal, of standard quality and purity available from pharmacies? Why make what is basically a social, medical and emotional problem into a criminal one? Its makes no sense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I read some of the pages blagsta.


    Why is it?? There is no need to take drugs for reacreational use. I know you will say alcohol, but at least that deals with thrst and hydration, even tho it can have opposite effects. What do drugs do recreationally? Do they nourish you? heal you? No. They serev no purpose in that vein. Abuse of drugs turns people inot unrecognisable figures of themseleves. No matter how the purity is, your where you get from. It is the industry of the criminal yes, so why legitimise that. Why say its ok to take drugs, because thats what you do by legalising it.

    and make up your mind how it works. People on here have said you can't just go an ask for the drugs, its only for addicts. Ok. so the criminality would still exist for those who couldn't get the drug and wanted to.

    Nothing would change except having a another drug dealer added to the mix, the state.

    Self control people.

    I had an operation a few years ago, I was pumped full of morphine for days. When it kicked in it felt great,. No pain, floating away, eyes glazed over. Lost. It was great. There have been plenty of times when I have thought "man I wouldn't mind some of that morphine right now", but did I go out an dget some? No. I had self control and I took responibility for msyelf and I didn't give in to that little feeling.

    Its time to stop blaiming everyone else for the problem. The durgs are the uissue. the people are the issue.

    Legallising drugs doesn't solve anything as far as I can see.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    It would only create yet another supplier. And is it even morally right??

    Here is this big bad thing, we can't figure out how to deal with it, so we'll just legalkise it and that takes the problems of us.

    So when you have a bad thing, you say its ok? A child does a bad thing and you say thats fine??

    thats wack logic and idealistic I think.

    Legalisation is not some magic wand for the worlds problems.

    Would alcohol be better or worse if we banned it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    Why is it?? There is no need to take drugs for reacreational use. I know you will say alcohol, but at least that deals with thrst and hydration, even tho it can have opposite effects. What do drugs do recreationally? Do they nourish you? heal you? No. They serev no purpose in that vein.

    So we should keep alcohol legal because it has some slight nutritional content?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    alcohol isn't the same I don't think.

    Its not as bad as drusg I think but not doubt there is an argument it is just the same.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    alcohol isn't the same I don't think.

    Its not as bad as drusg I think but not doubt there is an argument it is just the same.

    Except of course its easily the most socially damaging drug of all, half of violent crime is because or helped along by alcohol, billions of NHS money are wasted because of A&E admissions....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    true. Though probably half of them shouldn't even be in A & E but thats another matter.

    Though leats alcohol serves a purpose, it can provide liquid you drink. Its a poor form of nourishment I grant you but still there.

    Drugs, or street drugs, don't have such dual purpose.

    Except for weed in pain relief but really you can get pain relief in non illegal drugs,

    Prohibtion didn't work either. And its too entrenched in society now. You couldn't take it away.

    I only think there is acertain eliment that would miss street drugs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Walkindude wrote:
    I read some of the pages blagsta.

    My point being that addiction is a complex issue and reading a few links on the web is not going to make you an expert.
    Walkindude wrote:
    Why is it??

    I don't know why, its seems to be the way we are built. Humans have been using plants to alter their consciousness since the dawn of time.
    Walkindude wrote:
    There is no need to take drugs for reacreational use.

    And...?
    Walkindude wrote:
    I know you will say alcohol, but at least that deals with thrst and hydration, even tho it can have opposite effects.

    Nice contradictory statement there. It deals with thirst and hydration even though it doesn't. :confused:
    Walkindude wrote:
    What do drugs do recreationally?

    Lots of reasons. See the thread in the drugs forum.
    Walkindude wrote:
    Do they nourish you? heal you? No. They serev no purpose in that vein. Abuse of drugs turns people inot unrecognisable figures of themseleves. No matter how the purity is, your where you get from. It is the industry of the criminal yes, so why legitimise that. Why say its ok to take drugs, because thats what you do by legalising it.

    Yes, its the industry of the criminal because its illegal. Duh.
    Walkindude wrote:
    and make up your mind how it works. People on here have said you can't just go an ask for the drugs, its only for addicts. Ok. so the criminality would still exist for those who couldn't get the drug and wanted to.

    Personally, I'd like to see drugs available to anyone who wanted them.
    Walkindude wrote:
    Nothing would change except having a another drug dealer added to the mix, the state.

    Better than it being in the hands of gangsters, no?
    Walkindude wrote:
    Self control people.

    I had an operation a few years ago, I was pumped full of morphine for days. When it kicked in it felt great,. No pain, floating away, eyes glazed over. Lost. It was great. There have been plenty of times when I have thought "man I wouldn't mind some of that morphine right now", but did I go out an dget some? No. I had self control and I took responibility for msyelf and I didn't give in to that little feeling.

    And here we go, right back to the beggining of the thread again. Why do people use drugs? What do models of addiction tell us about it?
    Walkindude wrote:
    Its time to stop blaiming everyone else for the problem. The durgs are the uissue. the people are the issue.

    Legallising drugs doesn't solve anything as far as I can see.

    You haven't taken in a word of this thread have you?
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