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No theres not.
What long term health concerns?
And, I say again, and as you said, he was paranoid because of the law. Heroin itself does not make people fearful, thats the total opposite of what it does.
It what sense?
There quite a bit of difference between deadly nightshade and cocaine too. Just because something occurs naturally doesn't mean it's nice.
What point are you trying to make?
I know that you can get lots from nature, I know they can have positive and negative aspects to them. I am all for using nature to help the way.
I'm just trying to keep some clairty on the issue.
I thought this thread was about street drugs, not just any old pill,plant, powder.
What on earth are you talking about?
Yes, there is a difference between legal diamorphine and street heroin, and yes, street heroin is far more dangerous, I'd say its fairly blindly obvious why they are different. The law!
Who? Where?
I wasn't disputing the quality between street drugs and medical drugs.
You were trying to say there was a big difference between plants and hard drugs and that's crap. Many 'hard drugs' are plants.
Just because something occurs naturally doesn't make it any better or worse for you than something that's processed or synthesized.
I knwo they are all planst, I knwo hard drusg come from plants. What I am talking about is after they ahve been croped, cut, cooked, crushed etc and made into the street drusg they are.
Given that Morrocan is an ex-addict I'd say he's in a good position to talk about heroin.
I still fail to see what your view is on this issue, you say we are 'pro-drugs' then say that prescribing heroin would be a bad idea. If you're going to rubbish our ideas what are yours?!
maybe he is but I don't appreciate being called a liar when it isn't true.
I told you my ideas, prevention of people getting on drugs in the first place. Which means more of those campgains you guys hate so much, that show the dnagers of drugs. In the case of heroin I think its back to cracking down on the crop goewers again and cutting off that supply. Then you have to focused on the Organised Crime gangs as well to take out the supply.
There is some merit in your prescribing heroin argument, I have said that. I just don't think its the cure all its being made out to be.
Except of course we hate those campaigns because they dont work, have never worked and will continue not to work. Why do you think heroin use keeps going up?
We will never ever stop the supply of drugs. It can not be done. Do you really think we can police the whole of Afghanistan?
And no, as long as the demand is there then so will the criminals.
Read the report I suggested, it is very candid about cutting off supply.
Well the supply out of Afgahnistan came to a near if not complete stop during the Taliban years so it can be done.
So you admit demand is the problem? So then prevention is the best cure.
So we should put the Taliban back in place because people here want to use heroin?
Thats slightly dodgy logic isnt it? People dont shoot up so its because of the campaign, do you not shoot up because the government told you not to?
Yes, demand is the issue, humans have always demanded intoxication, and always will.
You said it can't be down to to supply at grass roots level, from the fields in afghanistan, obviously it can be. It needs to be worked on.
I don't shoot up coz 1) I don't want to 2) I don't want to be an adict and sepnd all my money etc etc 3) those anti0drugs campagin I do remember and they stick with me 4) Coz Iam my own person responsible for myself, if I shot up its down to me, if I do then its down to me and I desreve the shit that comes with it, but I don't coz I have self control.
The only reason the Taliban were successful was their totally horrid record on human rights, is that a price paying? I ask you again to read that report, its very interesting in terms of cutting off supply.
Number 1 is by far the most important out of that list, you choose not to, just like most people.
I am not against drugs education, but we havent been doing that, we have been trying (unsuccessfully) to scare people into not using.
I am not suggesting using Taliban methods or a Taliban regime but you said it was impossible to cut it and it clearly isn't, you just need to crack down.
I think some people are scared and just because their are drug users does not make the tactic unsuccessful.
Like I said, the ONLY reason the Taliban were successful was because of their methods, methods every other country with a drug problem thought were cruel, repressive and inhumane.
Who is scared? Scared of what?
"You can get addicted pretty quickly and start feeling you have to have it all the time. It's cut with all sorts of ubbish but you don't really care. The only goal in life became getting more. It kind of took all my feelings away".
Fatal overdoses can happen, especially when users take their initial dose after a break during which tolerance has faded, or when opiate use is combined with use of other depressant drugs such as an alcohol, tranquillisers or other opiates.Many regular heroin users will use other opiates or depressant drugs when they cannot get hold of heroin"
http://www.drugscope.org.uk/druginfo/drugsearch/ds_results.asp?file=\wip\11\1\1\heroin_opiates.html
Does that sound great to you? Does that sound safe? And what does the guy who used it say? Oh yes, you can get addicted quickly which completely nullfiy's certain peoples arguments made a bit back on this thread about its addictive qualities.
It isn't impossible, you just have to crack down on it and invest in it.
I dont really understand what point you are making here, no street heroin is not safe, we havent ever said it was. Thats the reason we have been arguing for prescriptions.
And no, it does not 'nullify' others arguments because they were arguing with you saying that you get addicted from the first hit, something which is totally wrong.
Yet again I ask you to read that report, it is interesting and gives you a good over view of the UK drug market.
And again, I ask what do you think we should do?!
How, how do we 'crack down'?
And yes, risks of drug use should be pointed out, but so should ways to reduce that risk. Whats your point?
Crack down on the crop growers, invest in anti-drug and anti-organised crime enforcement. Work the supply lines so you can cut the drugs off before they ever reach the street.
The number of drug users goes up every year, the number of addicts goes up every year, I'd say thats a failure, and if it isnt, what is it?
What do you mean 'crack down'? And why, opium is the only thing stopping them starving to death, do you not think its a bit inhumane to starve an entire nation just because some people here want to use heroin?
The supply lines like trucks moving in the EU, we should 'work' on them so the drugs stop. Do you actually believe that possible?
I think you need to de-glamerise drugs as well, that would help.
Oh bloody hell, you can grow more then fields of ppoies you know. Obviously help them find new crop sources so they dont have to grow the crops but cracking down ont hem doesn't automatcially mean starving a nation to death, don't be so sensationalist.
Yes, we already know the routes used. They could be intercepted if givenb the right resources.
So because we are not all addicts the government policy is working? Thats a strange yard stick to measure by if you dont mind me saying so.
Yes, you can grow other things, but nothing which can withstand the drought and give you the profit margin on opium.
So how, given the 'right resources' should we stop these trucks?
Hate to break it to you and them, its no the only hot country in the world or one that suffers drought. Plenty others do, and they don't all have people in them crowing poopies for drugs. You can manage if you try.
Wel you gain intelligence, gain people on theinside, find the routes, track them, bust them. Using existing Organised Crime and drug teams, probably create a new one or 2 as well. Bust them in the trucks.
And yes, other countries dont grow poppies, whats your point? That they should starve for our problem?
And it is exactly those very same margins which means you will not stop the traffic coming in no matter how many police teams you have.
tsk tsk.
They won't starve. Jeez. Its not one or the other. Other countries cope, they can cope. Oh and heroin use is on the rise in the middle east and they have levels of addicts near our own so its not them suffering for our problem, its theirs as well.