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That's her choice and good luck to her. However, what choice does my sister have when she sees images of sexually objectified women shoved in her face wherever she goes?
Do you think men and women are equal in this society? That they have equal power?
I think men and women have differing levels of equality in different areas. I don't think it always swings the way of the male either.
Men and women arn't equal though. Should they be treated as such?
I think where ever it is appropriate they should be, yes.
They are equal, and should be treated as such.
You're confusing equality with being identical.
2+2 = 4, but so does 3+1. They're both equal.
I agree that they should in areas where there are no differences.
Areas where there are differences should be ignored for the sake of equality though.
There are clear difference between the sexes in a lot of areas, therefore the're not equal in everything.
You're confusing equality with being the same.
You can have clear differences and still be equal. Unless you're arguing that men/women aren't people...
My sister as a lap dancer enjoys being objectified, it gives her a power over us blokes.
It's not just men who are responsible for onbectifying women, it's the women themselves. They know us blokes are mugs for it.
You've said many times in this thread to look at the womens views on this thread.
Yes, that's my point. A harmless grope is unlikely to manifest itself into something maliscious. So a grope, by any sex isn't that bad.
I still don't follow.
I suggest you're only saying that 'cos you're a bloke.
Good for her.
But what about the many more women who don't want to be?
I don't think the women who take their kit off in mags or clubs are doing it unwillingly, or that they don't enjoy it, and I don't think there's anything wrong with admiring some naked flesh.
But the mags, IMHO, go far beyond simply admiring a bit of naked flesh.
You are still mixing up equality and sameness.
You're using historical contexts to make out that a grope on a women is something worse than a grope on a man.
How many gropes turn out to be something more dangerous, next to none I suggest.
That's a very simplistic way of putting it, but yes.
Not the point. How does it make the woman feel?
How does it make the men feel?
You know rightly, that in 99% of the cases, it's the women who chooses if she goes out with the man and sleeps with them. I can equally say women grope men because they know they can get away with it and tease them. Just as much as you say men grope women because they have more power over them.
Quite differently to how it makes women feel IME.
Its not the same. It just isn't. Women don't rape men, don't sexually abuse them, don't pressurre them into sex, don't (as much) beat them up, earn more money, get presented as sex objects etc etc.
And how many rapists are there out there? Very few.
In a situation in a niteclub or pub where a man gropes a women and woman gropes a man, I'd say it's pretty much the same
ETA:How many times has a girl asked you for permission to have sex with her?
More than you'd think I bet. See the recent thread about convictions for rape etc. But that's not the point - women don't rape men. Men rape women. There is a difference in power. Its not whether the groper is a rapist - its about how it makes the woman feel. Most women I speak to says it makes them feel really fucking angry. Most men don't feel like that.
From talking to my partner and my female friends, looking at the posts from some of the women on this thread, I'd completely and utterly disagree.
Eh?
Women can rape men...it's just stupidly rare.
How is it really that different.
Just take an example, a group of girls walk by you grope one on the bum, she either A)turns round, slaps you or gives angry face or B)flirts back
With a man it's either A)feels shy, walks on, B)tries to get it on with the girl, however, she has the entire control of how that goes further, she could either laugh at him and tell him to go away, or continue.
Both cases represent some sort of power control, one physical, one not.
Can they? Really? If it does happen, then, as you say, its stupidly rare. So my point still stands.
Are you serious?
I wouldn't know, never having been the type of sleaze that does that sort of shit.
Do you think that, in general, the man being groped is going to feel worse or the woman? If you think its the same, try asking around.
No, its not the same. For the reasons stated.
Yes they can, it usually happens when the male is drunk.
Yes, i'm not saying the two situations are the exact same but relatively similar.
Why do you pass judgement when you've never experienced it then?
It can be the same, especially when the women laughs at the man afterwards, i.e. just teasing. Plus I know many girls would take a grope as a compliment. I varies from person to person.
Well I think they're similar, for the reasons stated.
Really? You think that the extreme rarity of women raping men (I still can't figure that out) is the same as men raping women? Seriously? :eek:
Experienced what? Being a sleazy shitbag?
Yes, it varies from person to person, which is why I said "in general". In general it is not the same
You haven't stated any reasons.
A woman might enjoy the power she holds over a man as a result of him objectifying her. But to say someone enjoys their intelligence being disregarded and their being treated as non-human (i.e. vegetable or mineral) just baffles me.
Anyway...
I couldn't stomach reading this entire thread, so I read the first few and the last few...apologies if I missed anyone's profound thoughts on the matter.
Everything Kermit said about the sinister side of these mags is exactly what I think about the whole matter. Behind the glossy blonde hair and Saline implants there's a very destructive message, for males and females. I find it all a bit weird and disturbing, but I try not to think about it too much.
Oh yeah, and "Win a Boob Job for your Girlfriend" is reprehensible. Which depraved mind thinks of that kind of thing?
Now blag, quote me where I said they were the same. I just said it happens.
No, if you've never groped a girl how do you know the reasons why other blokes do it?
I have stated reasons, are you blind?
See the post above yours? See the posts from other women on the thread? That tell you anything?
Domestic violence statistics
Women can rape men.
And I'm not talking about rape being the same, I'm talking about groping someone.
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news/press/16618.shtml