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Do you really think that ALL the harm done by a sanction will be transmitted on the 'evil corporate fatcats and their profits'? I am sure you must realise that is completely ridiculous.
Just as likely is that the sanctions are interpreted as an attack by the west, public opinion hardens against us, making it even more difficult to get anything done theorugh negotiation etc
Please elaborate further.........
Funny that, seeing as corporate greed and free market capitalism create far more grief and misery to the poor and vulnerable than anything else on the planet, and yet you are an avid supporter of them.
As I said, just one way of many would be to impose tariffs on certain products the country in question is an exporter of. Just the number of sales to overseas countries are reduced and so are the profits for the companies that sell the products in question.
Believe me, no country is not going to be bankrupt for it. But rich people and corporations hate losing profits, even miniscule amounts of it, and you can be sure they'd put pressure to their government to have the tariffs lifted.
Where did you get the idea that I don't care about those in the developing world or that I am a supporter of corporate greed?
You are the one suggesting a policy that would bring misery on the poor for the sake of some rich western drug dealers and sex offenders, you seem to be confused......
And then there are many other things to consider: suspension from the Commonwealth or other trading alliances, cultural and sporting boycotts, temporary barring from entry in other nations government members or businessmen... the list of measures that will put pressure on the government but not affect the population at large is long.
And I am afraid that by being an ardent supporting of unrestricted free trade you are directly supporting the exploitation of the poor in those countries. You might not see it as corporate greed... others do.
2) Corporations have nothing to do with free markets.
I never mentioned mass unemployment, unemployment of any kind is bad, not just the 'mass' variety.....
Yes the second bit is true but off the debate we were having.
The last bit is bollocks as you almost admit yourself in fact by admitting that there could well be job losses as a result of trade restrictions. Have the poor of Spain suffered form free trade under the Eu or have they massively benefited and Spain become a far richer country?
Nah. It should be a victory. The idea that we can have some of us sat around doing nothing just shows how good we have got at manipulating the world in our favour.
See above.
Er... if they work for a multinational or a major producer/exporter, membership of the EU will have made little difference for them. They will still get paid semi-slave wages (though not so bad thanks to miminum wage laws) while the employer creams all the extra benefits.
They won't, however, seeing (as you said) as major partners such as China, Russia and of course the US are happily sending people to their deaths with alarming frequency.
Jesus Christ, why do people think this crap!
Do workers at the Nissan plant in Sunderland get paid 'slave wages', no of course not......
There I was thuinking you were one of the most ardent supporters of the EU, was I wrong?
Do you support the Eu or not, I thought you did? If you do you would surely also recognise the benefits of free trade that have been one of the factors in increasing the prosperity of many nations, including Spain.......
Freer trade might have brought more prosperity for some- but certainly not for all and for millions of people with dead end/unskilled jobs all that wonderful extra trading has brought them absolutely zero benefits.
I think Al is one of those "making money = bad person" type self loathers mate. Everything is going to be down to some fat cat exploiter or some shit like that.
It is. How often do discounts get passed to the consumer though?
Remember a certain recent discussion regarding DVDs, CDs, games and cars?
No of course, very few things bring benefits for all, there are nearly always winners and losers out of any economic change, but if the winners outweigh the losers then the change should be considered a good thing in my mind, and as you have said yourselg, trade had bought benefits to some at least thus is a good thing.
Well, of course I do. Who doesn't?
Must be a pain seeing your wages every month and know that they come from the blood of the workers. :rolleyes:
Call me a cynic but I've never been much of a believer in 'trickle down' Adam Smith theories. One sad fact of life is that the immense majority of profits and benefits will always be kept by the people at the top.
A healthy economy should benefit most people but there must be limits to trade and there must be ethics in place to ensure everyone gets a piece of cake.
Oh, if only there weren't any governments, countries, societies or people eh? What a wonderful place the world would be.
Trickle-down and Adam Smith are sperate theories and not really relevent to the the gains form trade.
What limits to trade do you advocate specifically, and why must there be some?
Maybe the people at the top do benefit more (though that is largely irrelevant given the far greater extent of social mobility) if the others benefit as well then why not do it.
Do you think it is coincidence that all the richest and most prosperous nations, with the lowest number of poor and desperate people are heavy traders?
Understatment of the millennium.
That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement or that the poor and desperate people, both at home and abroad, need to to suffer to keep the system afloat.
I thought the left had come to terms with the fact that trade is generally good for the poor of the developing world hence the make poverty history campaign against trade restrictions in the developed world etc (though we have had a similar debate on here before and some of have sought to deny the support of freer trade)
Yes i remember it well.