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Aparently, Military occupation is no longer a 'legitimate Grip'

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Well, Rummy has gone and done it again.

Latest BS PR move by our friend Rummy
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A true master of cognitive dissonance! :yeees:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Rummy is awesome as a comedian...shame he sends troops into battle!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps we should call them freedom fighters?

    At the end of the day, that is precisely what the US government called the Taliban (I kid you not) when it supplied them with weapons to fight the Soviet Union.

    What an utter cunt Rumsfeld is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its a pathology, Al. Theyve lied so often and so flagrantly that theyve come to believe their own lies.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Well, what a fucking mess this whole Iraq war is.

    It really is the next Vietnam, isn't it? It's too late now, its all fucked up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    comedians should NOT be in charge of running militia! so sad..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It isnt Vietnam yet, i think we should all remember that for the time being at least, there is allegedely an exit strategy for the next year or 2 i think (will NEVER happen)!

    I still reckon we should have done a proper job with Afghanistan you know. truly hunted down Al Quida and the Taliban and changed that nation and rebuilt it for the better you know! What was the need for Iraq? i mean really? Bush family revenge!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ---
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Selected quotes:

    31 January 1963
    "The war in Vietnam is going well and will succeed."
    Robert McNamara

    30 June 1964
    "The war in Vietnam is on the right track."
    Henry Cabot Lodge

    December 1966
    "Of this we can be sure. Our resolution and determination has
    prevailed. We are winning the war in Vietnam."
    Lyndon B.Johnson

    April 1967
    "Not only can we now say that the enemy cannot win but we
    ourselves have won the war although it is not yet at an end."
    General Westmoreland,US Commander in South Vietnam

    19 March 1968
    "We have set our course and America will prevail."
    Lyndon B.Johnson


    Deja vu anyone?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do not think the Robert McNamara quote is fair, because in 1963 the war was going pretty well from an American perspective, But i totally agree with the rest of them being total bullshit lies!
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Things change. Supplying them with weapons to protect and fight was a clever idea.
    Yes, arming and training Terrorists who hate you and even hated you then is a good idea. At least you know you trained Osama well - so well, you can't catch him! 10/10 for stupidity - The USSR was right, the US is to stuck up to admit it - just like it would have been the other way round.
    "My enemies enemy is my freind" - stupidest saying ever.
    Do you long for the return of the Soviet Union (or USSR) with its consintration camps and endless wars or what?
    And I suppose you are willing to ignore the fact the US opperates in much the same way? For two polar opposite powers they had and have striking similarities. Hell, there is a current scandal about the flying of folks to them out of the UK.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Yes, arming and training Terrorists who hate you and even hated you then is a good idea. At least you know you trained Osama well - so well, you can't catch him! 10/10 for stupidity - The USSR was right, the US is to stuck up to admit it - just like it would have been the other way round.
    "My enemies enemy is my freind" - stupidest saying ever.

    And I suppose you are willing to ignore the fact the US opperates in much the same way? For two polar opposite powers they had and have striking similarities. Hell, there is a current scandal about the flying of folks to them out of the UK.

    You're not really suggesting that the occupation of a foreign country was a good idea are you? The USSR was a vile and disgusting dictatorship that occupied many nations - just because you don't like what the US has done, surely doesn't mean you intend to dance on the graves of those killed by the USSR, acting as if this muderous dictatorship is in someway worth of anything other than pity and disgust.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    I still reckon we should have done a proper job with Afghanistan you know. truly hunted down Al Quida and the Taliban and changed that nation and rebuilt it for the better you know! What was the need for Iraq? really?
    and what was the need for afghanistan again?
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Jim V wrote:
    You're not really suggesting that the occupation of a foreign country was a good idea are you? The USSR was a vile and disgusting dictatorship that occupied many nations - just because you don't like what the US has done, surely doesn't mean you intend to dance on the graves of those killed by the USSR, acting as if this muderous dictatorship is in someway worth of anything other than pity and disgust.

    I was trying to point out that whislt the US claims to be high and mighty, it has done just as much bad in the reigon as the USSR, and seesm to be taking no steps to fix it.

    The USSR was bad. The US seems to be just as bad.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    and what was the need for afghanistan again?

    Hunting down a man who apparently planned the WTC attacks. Who flees from nation to nation not occpuying any for much time?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Hunting down a man who apparently planned the WTC attacks. Who flees from nation to nation not occpuying any for much time?
    and he escaped into the mountains on a white horse ...

    the age of bullshit aye!
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    and he escaped into the mountains on a white horse ...
    More to the point, how did that guy on a pink moped escape?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    weapons of mass distraction ...saddam bombed new york ...saddam was building small wooden planes to attack america ...invade a whole nation to catch one crook ...who's crime scene they refused to investigate ...

    hollywood fairy tales now rule our minds ...and we don't seem to mind!
    the world has gone truly fucking mad.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    weapons of mass distraction ...saddam bombed new york ...saddam was building small wooden planes to attack america ...invade a whole nation to catch one crook ...who's crime scene they refused to investigate ...

    hollywood fairy tales now rule our minds ...and we don't seem to mind!
    the world has gone truly fucking mad.

    Well, this is obvious. The quesstion we have to ask is, why does no-one act?
    Because, right under our noses, they have taken the reigns of power, and it is too late to do anything now.

    Repeatadley their stories are all shown to be lies, and look! No one even protests anymore! No one does anything but watch the news report. And doesn't even seem to react until some shite about "Im a clebrity, no one fucking cares" comes on.

    Media. Propaganda. Goebbels would be happy to know his creation still works this well, this many years on. Bloody farce of the Mass Media.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because, right under our noses, they have taken the reigns of power, and it is too late to do anything now.

    They never let go. They just got a PR firm in to sell them retaining them.
    Repeatadley their stories are all shown to be lies, and look! No one even protests anymore! No one does anything but watch the news report. And doesn't even seem to react until some shite about "Im a clebrity, no one fucking cares" comes on.

    I keep telling you, the people who a decade or two would be protesting don't bother with "democracy" anymore. They've used the fabulous tool of the internet to find legal solutions, or buy special interest pressure group time to further their own ends or something else, you know the song by now, hum along.

    It's come down to an argument that's largely going on in secret, a war even, that almost no one knows is being fought or why, between the various groups and individuals who really run things but no one actually knows who they are.
    Media. Propaganda. Goebbels would be happy to know his creation still works this well, this many years on. Bloody farce of the Mass Media.

    Well, yeah. The function of the media is to stop people asking questions. By providing continual answers, you ensure that most people get bored with the questions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i blame them hypnofucking tists ... :eek:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Scruffy wrote:
    Well, Rummy has gone and done it again.

    Latest BS PR move by our friend Rummy
    BAH! Take you're liberal "yahoo" media article else where, you america hater!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So do fucking I....

    In the early fifties a guy named Milton Erickson came along. He's known as a the father of modern hypnosis. And he was GOOD at it. The stuff he could do is the sort of thing legends are made of. As an example he could whap someone in a trance just by shaking their hand......

    http://venus.va.com.au/suggestion/hand.html

    Here it is on the internet, for anyoe who wants to have a pop at it. :impissed:

    Unfortunately for everyone else, some smart arses came along and took the methods he used and started teaching them to the highest bidder. Guess who the highest bidders were?

    Right.

    Now we have these dickheads running around with skills but no knowledge just trying to get their own way using trickery, clever language (see the Rumsfeld thread) and a more or less defenceless population mesmerised by modern advertising (yeah they taught them too) and totally unequipped to deal with what's in front of them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    BAH! Take you're liberal "yahoo" media article else where, you america hater!

    Shut the hell up, I know where you live, I know when you fall asleep, and when you wake up.

    Every single large media group has atleast one person trained in different forms of psycology on its payroll. Nothing is left to chance anymore. Anytime that you may think that something may have been a clever moment that came forth half by chance, or something that seemed like a neat idea, some one was payed the big bux to make it seem like that. Commercials and TV shows are designed by scientists these days.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well actually i think the point of Afghanistan was suppose to be to stop the country being a safe haven to Al Quida agents, stop terrorist training camps and make it an ally nation to the west.

    (I know it didnt work out liek that, and it was a total failure, before you point that out morrocan roll, but that is the answer to your question)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    Well actually i think the point of Afghanistan was suppose to be to stop the country being a safe haven to Al Quida agents, stop terrorist training camps and make it an ally nation to the west.

    (I know it didnt work out liek that, and it was a total failure, before you point that out morrocan roll, but that is the answer to your question)
    i fully understand why you believe that but ...the invasion of afghanistan was being planned under ronald reagan ...they needed another pearl harbour ...in their own words ...to get the backing of the american public ...same with iraq.
    nowt to do with 911 or terrorists .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The USSR was bad. The US seems to be just as bad.

    Please shut up now. You have no idea what you are saying.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to say

    Hey i just wanted to say..as a serving memeber of HM armed forces with 5th PATHFINDER platoon of the Parachute regiment that alot of people on this site need to do their research properly. People saying that British forces havent got good kit. The new SA-80 A2 is far better than the M-16..FACT..Challenger 2E main battle tank is far better then the American M1A2 Abrams..FACT..m1a2 is vastly out performed by the British Challe tank..and there seems to be alot of idiots making comments about "SAS i think wre the best but not as well equipped as US spec ops" this is sucha heap of bullshit. They use the C7..the Canadian version of M-16 and M4..except it is vastly superior..instead of "spray n pray" like US forces we actually pick our targets. The SAS and SBS have whats known as a Purple Forces Budgest i.e so long as they justify a need then they are allowed the finances to buy..hence them equipping the ENTIRE unit with the Canadian C-7 now..complete with the new British USGL (Under Slung Grenade Launcher) which by the way has a greater fire distance than the US M-203..they have the H&K MP-5 and H&K G-36..the worlds best assult rifle to date. Next. I have been through the USMC selection course on a cross training exercise a few years back and im sorry..not saying they arent any good..but it was laughably easy. Some guy on here said of the SAS "oh like B20 wandering around in the Desert with shit kit and gettin lost" ok one incident..what about the Delta force unit that got its behind tanned off in Afgfhanistan..or how about the Tehran incident years ago where they got slashed...Trust me theres been more fuck ups from Delta force and US SEAL's than you'll ever see from SAS and SBS..and as for kit they were using British American and Canadian and French kit on the B20 Op...now...its 6 months TOTAL training for a US delta force operator...note that the SAS and SBS spend a far greater amount of time being trained and the slection standards are far tougher. and at least we can carry weight for extended ops behind lines.and thas ALL of our forces not just UK SF...even our og standard Infantry carry anywhere from 55 lbs UPWARDS for days on end...i note USMC havnt got the stamina for it. dont get me wrong im glad to have america on our side and trying to look up to us and be as good...but..they are NOT as good..simple..
    and if anyone wants links to sites that'll also back up what i say..fine i'll put them up for ya..not that i need to since i been with the British army for 8 and ahalf years now starting with 3 PARA and now the last 3 years with the PATHFINDER's. Oh and also US forces maybe you could try and cut down on the friendly fire..remember this one...i paste this here from a news site for UK forces..please reaad how they describe american forces....

    Colleagues of a Briton killed in a "friendly fire" incident on Friday described the US pilot responsible as a "cowboy on a jolly".

    A Lance Corporal of Horse, Matty Hull, 25, of The Blues and Royals, Household Cavalry Regiment, died when a US A-10 tankbuster aircraft attacked a small convoy of UK tanks and armoured personnel vehicles, north of Basra.
    British soldiers injured when a US "tankbuster" aircraft attacked their convoy, killing one of their comrades, hit out angrily at the "cowboy" pilot today.
    Troops wounded in Friday's attack accused the A-10 Thunderbolt pilot of "incompetence and negligence" while others privately called for a manslaughter prosecution.

    The comments came as America's most senior military official vowed to make it his quest to stop future "friendly fire" tragedies.

    General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, apologised for the deadly error by the A-10 in southern Iraq.

    He told BBC1's Breakfast With Frost: "It's the absolute saddest tragedy that any of us can experience.

    "I don't think we have to live with situations like that, and one of my jobs has to be to ensure that we get the resources and the technical means to ensure that in the future this never, never happens again. And that will be my quest."

    But the crews of the two British forward reconnaissance Scimitars which were attacked by the A-10 could not contain their anger.

    Lance Corporal of Horse Steven Gerrard, speaking from his bed on the RFA Argus in the Gulf, said: "I can command my vehicle. I can keep it from being attacked. What I have not been trained to do is look over my shoulder to see whether an American is shooting at me."

    LCoH Gerrard, the commander of the leading vehicle, described to Patrick Barkham of The Times how the deadly A-10 attack began.

    The pilot made two swoops. "I will never forget that noise as long as I live. It is a noise I never want to hear again," he said.

    "There was no gap between the bullets. I heard it and I froze. The next thing I knew the turret was erupting with white light everywhere, heat and smoke."

    He added: "I'll never forget that A-10. He was about 50 metres off the ground. He circled, because he can turn on a 10 pence.

    "He came back around. He was no more than 1,000 metres away when he started his attack run. He was about 500 metres away when he started firing."

    On the back of one of the engineers' vehicles there was a Union Jack.

    "It's about 18 inches wide by about 12 inches. For him to fire his weapons I believe he had to look through his magnified optics. How he could not see that Union Jack I don't know."

    Packed with hundreds of rounds of ammunition, as well as grenades, rifle rounds and flammable diesel fuel tanks, the front two Scimitars exploded into flames.

    One of their comrades, Lance Corporal of Horse, Matty Hull, 25, was killed.

    LCoH Gerrard also criticised the A-10 for shooting when there were civilians close by.

    He said: "There was a boy of about 12 years old. He was no more than 20 metres away when the Yank opened up.

    "He had absolutely no regard for human life. I believe he was a cowboy. There were four or five that I noticed earlier and this one had broken off and was on his own when he attacked us. He'd just gone out on a jolly."

    He added: "I'm curious about what's going to happen to the pilot.

    "He's killed one of my friends and he's killed him on the second run."

    Trooper Chris Finney, 18, added: "All the wagons have markings to say they are Coalition. I don't know why he shot a second time, he was that close.

    "To be honest, I think they are just ignorant. I don't know if they haven't been trained or are just trigger happy."

    Another of the injured, Lieutenant Alex MacEwen, 25, added: "A mistake has happened but too many things suggest it was down to pure incompetence and negligence."

    Trooper Joe Woodgate, 19, the driver of the Scimitar in which gunner LCoH Hull was killed walked away with holes in his bullet-proof vest and torn clothes.

    He told Audrey Gillan of The Guardian: "I don't suppose they have learned much from the first war. I can tell what an American tank looks like from every direction.

    "It was the most irresponsible thing in the world. They didn't know what was going on. We were just getting on with our mission and they were messing around in the skies and saw us and said 'let's get ourselves a couple of wagons, that'll be one to tell the lads when we get back to the base'.

    "How come somebody who is a top-notch Thunderbolt pilot can't tell what a British tank looks like. I think someone in the Pentagon or somewhere needs to sort something out there."

    The reporter said some soldiers were also calling for the pilot to be prosecuted for manslaughter.

    "I had a lot of time for Matty," said Trooper Woodgate.

    "I respected him a lot and thought he was an awesome bloke. He was one of the nicest people I have ever met."

    So far five British servicemen have been killed by friendly fire and four in combat with Iraqi forces.

    On March 23 a Tornado aircraft was shot down by a US Patriot missile battery near the Kuwaiti border. Another two British soldiers were killed when their Challenger 2 Main Battle tank was engaged by another British tank west of Basra.




    Ok now being serious before some American idiot cos thats what you are...says..."we have more troops hence there will be more friendly fire" thats some pathetic bullshit ....a survey showed that if UK forces were the same size in number as US forces we still wouldnt have anywhere even NEAR the amount of US forcers friendly fire..all it booils down to..is putting shit soldiers on the front line. Perosnally i'd sooner someone start giving the yanks BLANKS to fire instead of live rounds..keep em happy with a nice loud bang and a flash ..and keep us safe to do the real fighting. :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As if!

    Iraq was the "lets get alot of support for america" war, Afghanistan was a war NO ONE in the Bush administration wanted!
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Please shut up now. You have no idea what you are saying.

    Please give reasons? Or does the abuse, civilian slaughter, and removal of freedoms not exist? The USA used to be something to look up to.

    And Hey Pathfinder! My mates just joined the Army... we are ultimatley better trained and equiped now with the SA80A2. But anyway, he's getting sent to Afghanistahn in '07, any advice for him?
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