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Dodging/avoiding taxes- Christians, do you do it?

13

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You really have a bizarre view of what constitutes "wealth".

    Don't I always? You seem to conflate wealthg with money totally. You really shuld read up on fiat currency.
    Endless things cost the same regardless of how much you have in the bank. And you appear to be dodging the undeniable fact that people on low incomes (or no incomes at all) simply cannot afford private education, transport, health, police, refusal collection and just about a million other things.

    What people on low incomes? How are they made to have those low incomes? Oh, it's the government again, isn't it? What's VAT again? How much of council tax goes towards refuse collection?

    Cause, you know, the first thing I would do if I was making a bin wagon service is build a great big suite of offices and book plane tickets for various places around the EU. :rolleyes:

    As you point out yourself, people on low incomes are the ones taxed most. Rich people avoid them, poor people can't escape them. Inflation (yes it's a tax) has robbed most pensioners of a decent retirement.
    No it's not at all. It's about helping the disadvantaged.

    Bollocks. Helping the disadvantaged is all about making taxation look good. And I must say it works.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Don't I always? You seem to conflate wealthg with money totally. You really shuld read up on fiat currency.

    You haven't actually a clue what my views are.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Only what I can tell from what you post. You do understand about fiat currency then?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, its a complete irrelevance that only barking mad free market types like yourself wank on about.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, its a complete irrelevance that only barking mad free market types like yourself wank on about.

    Ahh you don't understand it then.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know what it means and its a complete irrelevance.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    What people on low incomes? How are they made to have those low incomes? Oh, it's the government again, isn't it? What's VAT again? How much of council tax goes towards refuse collection?
    Er no. They are clearly made to have low incomes by they employers, who pay them fuck all. :rolleyes:
    As you point out yourself, people on low incomes are the ones taxed most. Rich people avoid them, poor people can't escape them. Inflation (yes it's a tax) has robbed most pensioners of a decent retirement.
    A person on 15k doesn't pay a lot of tax. But even if they paid literally zero tax they would still be unable to to afford health, education, transport etc etc etc if it weren't provided by the State through taxes.

    You still are refusing to admit that if it weren't for taxes there would be no education, health, transport, welfare available to tens of millions of people in this country. Perhaps you can come up with an alternative system so we can get rid of taxes and still provide basic care to everyone. Until then...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Er no. They are clearly made to have low incomes by they employers, who pay them fuck all. :rolleyes:

    No, the only reason they have the postions they have as "employers" is due to the force that they are backed up with i.e. the government.
    A person on 15k doesn't pay a lot of tax.

    Wrong.
    But even if they paid literally zero tax they would still be unable to to afford health, education, transport etc etc etc if it weren't provided by the State through taxes.

    Also wrong. CT, inflation, vat, the mortgage or rent, car tax, savings tax, parking fines, licences, increase costs for everything bought also because of taxation mean that about 80% of that 15k goes to someone else.
    You still are refusing to admit that if it weren't for taxes there would be no education, health, transport, welfare available to tens of millions of people in this country.

    Yeah, because it's bollocks. There would be better quality versions of all those things for pretty much everyone. Quite why you think that an "employer" would be able to exert any control over people if say, his workers turned up on monday and did what they usually do (run his business for him) but refused to be ripped off any longer without a police force I have no idea.
    Perhaps you can come up with an alternative system so we can get rid of taxes and still provide basic care to everyone. Until then...

    Just get the government out of the way and let people's own resourcefullness get the job done. They'll do a better job, cheaper and more efficiently to boot.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know what it means and its a complete irrelevance.

    The chief mechanism of capitalism is irrelevent? Interesting.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    No, the only reason they have the postions they have as "employers" is due to the force that they are backed up with i.e. the government.
    Eh? You lost me there. You were asking how people on low incomes were to have said low incomes? I replied that was down to their employers, who paid them fuck all. Taxes have nothing to do with the wages they get paid.


    Wrong.
    You would say that, since you would think 1p a year would be too much tax. The rest of us, however...


    Also wrong. CT, inflation, vat, the mortgage or rent, car tax, savings tax, parking fines, licences, increase costs for everything bought also because of taxation mean that about 80% of that 15k goes to someone else.
    I'm not sure you understand what the word 'tax' means. You seem to be chucking a lot of completely different and irrelevant things into the same pot.


    Yeah, because it's bollocks. There would be better quality versions of all those things for pretty much everyone.
    Oh yeah? And who's going to pay for them?

    Just get the government out of the way and let people's own resourcefullness get the job done. They'll do a better job, cheaper and more efficiently to boot.
    Funny how that's not case already anywhere in the world... you would have thought such a flawless system would already by the norm everywhere.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Taxes have nothing to do with the wages they get paid.

    Taxes pay for the police, who enforce minority property rights, and hence the unfair division of profit. It's the main function of government, to keep things exactly as they are as regards economic exploitation.
    I'm not sure you understand what the word 'tax' means. You seem to be chucking a lot of completely different and irrelevant things into the same pot.

    Tax is an enforced burden that is imposed by the government. This means that all the things I listed are taxes.
    Oh yeah? And who's going to pay for them?

    The people who use them and no one else? It should work after all, I recently found out that the labour theory of value says that wages create prices. This means that education etc would have to be sold at a price that could be afforded. yeah I know, I think it's bollocks too, but it seems to be pretty standard left wing nutcase dogma, so it should be right up your street.
    Funny how that's not case already anywhere in the world... you would have thought such a flawless system would already by the norm everywhere.

    Well, the only place it's ever really been anything like tried on a large scale is the "US". Originally it has a very limite government, so it's people had to sort themselves out. Amazingly enough, they are they became the foremost economic power in the world. Until relatively recently, when "government" took over and have, inevitably, fucked it all right up.

    It wa also tried on a smaller scale in Spain at one point. Of course, the parasites who benefit from taxation in closeby areas couldn't let the idea catch on, so they used their stolen resources to put an end to it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Taxes pay for the police, who enforce minority property rights, and hence the unfair division of profit. It's the main function of government, to keep things exactly as they are as regards economic exploitation.
    That sounds dangerously close to socialism to me :D


    Tax is an enforced burden that is imposed by the government. This means that all the things I listed are taxes.
    Inflation isn't a tax or is enforced by the government. Mortages and rents aren't a tax and aren't enforced by the government. Parking fines certainly aren't a tax even if they are enforced by the government. Ditto licences, increased costs and most other thigns you can think of.

    Direct taxes on earnings. VAT. Stamp duty. Council. And a few others. But nothing else. Don't get your terms mixed. :rolleyes:



    The people who use them and no one else? It should work after all, I recently found out that the labour theory of value says that wages create prices. This means that education etc would have to be sold at a price that could be afforded. yeah I know, I think it's bollocks too, but it seems to be pretty standard left wing nutcase dogma, so it should be right up your street. [/quote] The only people who use them will be the ones who can afford to use them. The rest (i.e. the majority) will struggle to use them or not be able to use them at all- as it has been the case throughout history until quite recently.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That sounds dangerously close to socialism to me :D

    Yes, fooled by the different terminology they use, anarchists, socialists and the free mrket libertarians all think they disagree. Where they do it tends to be about method, not about the end goal. Some people use different words for the same ideas.
    Inflation isn't a tax or is enforced by the government.

    Yeah, it is. Government prints off more money, increasing the total money supply, causing inflation, hence, it's indirect taxation.

    Same with all the other things. Do you really need a licence to be able to drive? No, of course not. It's a government stealth tax. Every time someone is taxed, they have to pass the costs on, hence higher prices. Simple.
    The only people who use them will be the ones who can afford to use them. The rest (i.e. the majority) will struggle to use them or not be able to use them at all- as it has been the case throughout history until quite recently.

    You obviously have read a different version of history than I have. Every time we throw off an imposed system and use our brains instead, we move forward rapidly. Church goes, with it's crappy superstitions, we advance. This is just the next one to go by the wayside. It's inevitable, so not to fret.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Yeah, it is. Government prints off more money, increasing the total money supply, causing inflation, hence, it's indirect taxation.
    Inflation is caused by many different factors, not just that.
    Same with all the other things. Do you really need a licence to be able to drive? No, of course not. It's a government stealth tax. Every time someone is taxed, they have to pass the costs on, hence higher prices. Simple.
    Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the concept of the government demanding people should have licences for driving, the scheme is not a tax; nor is its function to raise money, but to safeguard the safety of road users.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    using america as an example is off mark.
    america became so wealthy because everything was virtualy lying around on the ground ...a whole continent with a handful of nomads on it ...less than a 1'4 million.
    the place had so much meat walking and flying about ...so much of everything ...arable land fresh water all the resources anyone could imagine ...in fact more than anyone could imagine ...so much so in fact that ...certain religous types have reckoned it to be the promised land of the bible!
    it was like finding an empty planet (new world) ...stocked to the eyebalss with every treasure imaginable and enough space for millions of people to more or less what the hell they liked.
    government was naturaly small cos the place was so empty ...so vast ...that5 the millions who were arriving from all over the world ...many cultures and languages ...couldn't possibly be policed.
    the wealth of that nation was handed to them on a plate.
    then it all went down hill.

    i have given you an example of when this country was awash with unimaginable wealth and few taxes ...you were reading it last night ...at least twice ...but no reply.
    what were the conditions like again?
    why did it take long struggles to get even a small amount of that wealth moving about the population?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think Jim V hit the nail on the head.

    All this "Tax is theft" bollocks really is vulgar. The abuse of power and mis-use of taxation money is abhorent, not the system itself. As Jim stated, i also feel proud that my relative wealth has the ability to help other people.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Inflation is caused by many different factors, not just that.

    Inflation is said to be caused by many factors. More smokescreens. Increasing the money supply is the only way to cause inflation. Only the government/banks can do this.
    Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the concept of the government demanding people should have licences for driving, the scheme is not a tax; nor is its function to raise money, but to safeguard the safety of road users.

    No, it's a tax, the "safety of road users" is the PR that gets you to swallow it and pay up like a good little robot. For every tax, there is a "PR" element to make it easier to swallow.
    government was naturaly small cos the place was so empty ...so vast ...that5 the millions who were arriving from all over the world ...many cultures and languages ...couldn't possibly be policed.

    Yeah, exactly. They weren't policed, and they didn't all die out did they? How much food do we produce again, Rolly? Government in early america wa designed to be as small as possible. the constitution is probably the best example of a limiting double bind in history.

    Notice that as soon as government got big enough to start a war it did do.
    i have given you an example of when this country was awash with unimaginable wealth and few taxes ...you were reading it last night ...at least twice ...but no reply.

    Because the government was doing what it's designed to do, that is take your stuff and put it into the hands of the people who control the government.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:



    Because the government was doing what it's designed to do, that is take your stuff and put it into the hands of the people who control the government.
    utter bollox!
    individuals were taking it and keeping it ...while shoving people down holes in the ground so they could take even more of the earths wealth for themselves.
    where was the health and education for the many coming from again?
    oh it wasn't cos the greedy bastards were keeping every last penny to themselves!
    so how did the masses finaly get some education and health care?
    political struggle and taxation i think you'll find.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    individuals were taking it and keeping it ...while shoving people down holes in the ground so they could take even more of the earths wealth for themselves.

    How did they get to do that again? What happened when people complained? Oh yeah things like peterloo.
    so how did the masses finaly get some education and health care?
    political struggle and taxation i think you'll find.

    By slowly forcing the theiving cunts to give some back through protest, strike, political pressure etc etc. All they did was get cleverer about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Firstly as I understand it those nuty right wingers who propose that type of tax princible arnt actyually arguing for a 0% rate, they would probably want a 5-10% as they need security forces dont they ?

    Milton Friedman (who I only just noticed is on someones tag line)
    Says that the duty of governemnt is to provide law and oredr (security forces) military (more security forces) and enforce contracts (a different type of security force) and presumablt to provide wages of buracrats to run it.

    It seams to me he considereds following an Ideology more important than what actually benifits most people, after all the famous rich Milton Friedman will always be able to see a doctor wont he.

    Secondly America was made rich by more than its natural resources, there are a lot of resource rich countries in the world today whose people are starving and poor. Theres no doubt that its free market aproach did help them grow rich, althrough theres more to it than that slavery maybe ?

    Look at the countries with such governements Ironicaly ex comunist states China and Russia and Mexico, For normal poor people thses are hell holes to live in, Why is Hugo Chavez so popular amungst the poor and evern a lot of middle class people in Latin America, cause he stands against that type of neo classical american economic model.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:

    By slowly forcing the theiving cunts to give some back through protest, strike, political pressure etc etc. All they did was get cleverer about it.
    at last you agree with me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    at last you agree with me.

    :confused:

    My whole point is that as government power diminishes, so things get better for everyone. How does that make govenrnment a neccessary thing?

    It's far better to not get stolen from in the first place than have to go through "representatives" and "public servants" to get it back once it's been taken. It's more efficient for a start.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    :confused:

    My whole point is that as government power diminishes, so things get better for everyone. How does that make govenrnment a neccessary thing?

    It's far better to not get stolen from in the first place than have to go through "representatives" and "public servants" to get it back once it's been taken. It's more efficient for a start.

    So staying in on a saturday night as well are you saddo,,

    Is there anythying you do beleive in ? (apart from me not being able to spell)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So staying in on a saturday night as well are you saddo,,

    Is there anythying you do beleive in ? (apart from me not being able to spell)
    in all fairness to klint ...he has a young family ...so needs not go out on a st.
    in all fairness to klint i actualy like his way of thinking.
    he is actualy right about countiries not real y existing but ...the illusion we live in is THE reality we have.
    living in klints very real reality would be extremely difficult ...even for him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    in all fairness to klint ...he has a young family ...so needs not go out on a st.
    in all fairness to klint i actualy like his way of thinking.
    he is actualy right about countiries not real y existing but ...the illusion we live in is THE reality we have.
    living in klints very real reality would be extremely difficult ...even for him.

    Yeah I like Klint as well (unlike some others on here)he's funny and despite his views dosnt appear to take him self too seriously(also unlike some others on here), and of course my Saddo comment was Ironic as Im staying in my self
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Id still like to know if theres anything he does beleive in though ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Id still like to know if theres anything he does beleive in though ?
    i reckon he believes in himself in a very positive way that eludes a llot o peoopele in here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So staying in on a saturday night as well are you saddo,,

    Yeah got a "do" tomorrow, though if that makes me less sad.
    Is there anythying you do beleive in ? (apart from me not being able to spell)

    Course there is. Guess what it is though!
    living in klints very real reality would be extremely difficult ...even for him.

    Well, the best thing about it is that I get to live in lots of other people's realities as I meet them and learn how they do it. It makes a lot of my job easier to know that the person in front of me who has a "problem" is really just doing something they have learned to do. Can't be "depressed" once you meet someone like me unless it's got very definite physical causes (as an example.)

    As for the rest....

    :blush:

    Thank ya.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Yeah got a "do" tomorrow, though if that makes me less sad.



    Course there is. Guess what it is though!



    Well, the best thing about it is that I get to live in lots of other people's realities as I meet them and learn how they do it. It makes a lot of my job easier to know that the person in front of me who has a "problem" is really just doing something they have learned to do. Can't be "depressed" once you meet someone like me unless it's got very definite physical causes (as an example.)

    As for the rest....

    :blush:

    Thank ya.
    tell ya wot mr hypno ...i don't actualy believe a person can be de ...pressed.
    depressing yes.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    tell ya wot mr hypno ...i don't actualy believe a person can be de ...pressed.
    only depressing.

    More or less. To br "depressed" there are specific things you have to do with your body and your mind. Stop doing them and it stops you being depressed. Simple. Too simple for some people.

    Don't use hypnosis with the "depressed" though, got some severe contraindications on it.
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