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It doesn't though, does it?
Rape Crisis was shut down for the want of £50,000 government money; many more times that was found for wallpaper.
Most government money does not go to those who need it. It goes on middlemen, who have set themselves up ion cushy jobs pretending that they are superior to us, lording it over us.
Why do we need a huge government to administer the money? Do we need a Parliament with 650 people in it, all creaming off £100,000 a year? Do we need Trident, which costs over £1billion a year? Do we need a legion of taxmen, all making sure we pay up?
Is the BBC saving the poor and putting food on their table? Of course it isn't.
Most taxation is not spent on what it should be spent on, because there are too many middlemen telling us what to do with our lives.
I can appreciate the argument that taxation does do some good. However, I bet we could chop the tax bill in half and still have good hospitals and schools and have a police force who don't murder people.
Taxation, despite any accidental good achievements it makes, is not morally acceptable, and is not forced upion us from moralistic viewpoints. It is forced upon us to keep a legion of John Birts and Sir Humphreys in plush apartments, it is forced upon us to keep us in check, like good little boys and girls. The real aim is control us, not to save us.
And I still don't see why I should have to work for over half the sodding year before I get looked after.
If tax was used for good things I wouldn't resent it so much. As it is it is used to give cretins like these huge disgusting salaries.
Because the bottom line remains, if taxes did not exist there would be no free health, no free education, no welfare, and no police, services, transport, pensions and countless other things for anyone other than a privileged few who could afford them.
And those who say taxation prevent people from "helping themselves" and helping others are simply talking out of their arses and hiding behind myths and lies, because they don't appear to have the guts to admit that "I don't want any of my money to go towards helping others, and if millions of people have no basic access to health or education, well I couldn't give a shit about what happens to them".
That is the basic truth, and until someone comes with a better, workable system, taxation for all its faults is a necessary evil- though I don't see it as an evil at all. Believe it or not I'm pretty content paying taxes- and I pay a small fortune proportionally speaking, compared to those who can afford it without even noticing it's gone from their bank accounts.
What's why I asked the question I asked, because the way I see it, the way I firmly believe it is, those who work out complex schemes to deprive the country of the taxes they should have been paying are the ones who are doing the thieving, and their actions go against the most basic of Christian principles: to help others.
lets take a little walk back in time ...a mere 150 years ago to london.
the capital city of the largest and most fabulously wealthy empire this world has ever seen.
what was the condition educationaly medicaly and socialy of the millions?
this country had more fabulously wealthy people than anywhere on earth ...how many joseph rowntrees were helping the masses again?
what was back to back housing and sanitation realy like?
how were these people going to help themselves and each other again?
it took political movements to change things ...it took taxes.
i'm all for a high tax society.
yes it gets misused in many ways.
so where are todays young people ...where is the demand for change ...even the heroes of the day become sirs and praise the politicians ...the geldofs and bonos ...getting fat in the same trough ...where are the protest songs?
if you want protest you have to go back thirty years and more. why? cos no one gives a fuck anymore. everyone wants to be on the telly win the lottery and get rich and famous without doing sod all and without talent.
is taxation to blame for this as well? i ask the last question cos according to kermit kermit and frog limited ...taxation is even responsible for the old bill killing the wrong fucking people!
i swear binge drinking and play stations has damaged a lot of you.
Bollocks. Ever heard of insurance?
Like the myths and lies that taxation is a good thing, when you really just know that you can't earn enough yourself, so you have to rob from someone else to provide you with the things you are too witless or lazy to get for yourself?
Oh, that's right rich people only get rich through robbery. :rolleyes:
If you had the full value of your labour (which only doesn't happen because of that government paid for by taxation don't forget) you could spend it on whatever you liked. As it happens, I don't give a shit about millions of random strangers. No one does. Think of any individual random stranger you would happily hand over several grand to for no reason at all to and I will give you a gold clock.
At least I am up front about it. Your indifference to others means you are happy to steal from them. Would you be willing to rob a family member to pay for your services? No. So why is it ok to employ someone else to do it for you?
When it's some random stranger doing it to someone else you have never met, that's ok isn't it? As long as you don't see the theft, it's fine to receive the benefits of it.
Hmm crap justification and envy too. Lovely.
Have you read the bible at any point there Al? Thou shall not steal. Theres fuck all in there about "unless you can spend a bit of it on a hospital inbetween all the bombs and freebies".
he said it was ceasers head on the coin so ...pay back to ceaser what is ceasers.
i'm surprised at you klintok ...do you realy believe the money in your pocket is realy yours!
Nope. But then I hold as little of his worthless faux money as i have to. The rest gets spent on real things.
The life that earned the money is mine though, and that's all the money represents.
Well, exactly.
I didn't study and work for anyone else.
"Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"
"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away."
So basically the gist of it is that being a Christain doesn't get you out of paying taxes. Unfortunately.
Jesus missed a bit.
And give to yourself what is yours.
Anyway, this story is just jesus getting rid of some idiots who were looking for an excuse to arrest him. Didn't he also have a tax collector with him as one of his crew?
he also had thieves and prostitutes hanging out with him ...your point being ...?
people fought long hard struggles to get a tax system that built a much fairer world.
flaws and all.
How does someone else claim it?
Perhaps they appeal to your sense of guilt and claim that things have to be paid for. A sensible man knows that things don't have to be paid for...they just have to be done.
The point about thieves and prostitues is that when they aren't theiving or selling themselves, they aren't thieves or prostitutes. Getting that over is a mammoth task, tusks and all.
Because no government also means no local rich businessman. It's only the use of force that makes you share what's yours by rights unequally.
Look, let's be serious for a moment. How much do you actually pay out in taxation of one form or another? It's about 80% of what you earn at the moment. You couldn't afford insurance if your pay tripled? Bunnies.
you wouldn't need a university education either, you would just pick a profession, or it would pick you and you would learn as you go. No more treating 16-25 year olds like they were children.
Why the hell do you think it happens?
Why the hell do you think they provide healthcare, or benefits? It's certainly isn't out of the goodness of their hearts. They are murderers, thieves and liars. It's to protect their investment and their resources. Cll it enlightened self interest, if you like.
And bad for me. The issue here is who I think is more important. Me and my family, or random strangers who could die in the morning and I wouldn't give two shits about. It's also bad for everyone. It pays for some of the worst things that human beings have done to each other. It's responsible for 200 million deaths in the last century.
Without taxation, Hitler is a short bad tempered one bollocked nutcase. With it, he's a mass murdering despot.
Well yes, your pay may be triple (80%? Where d'you get that from?) but your base wage would be whatever your employer felt like paying you. Enough to put food on your table most likely. Not enough to pay for medical insurance. After all, why look after the health of all his employees? After all if he loses a few to poor health so what? There'll be plenty more where they came from.
That's very naive if you think you can learn anything 'on the job.' Want to be an architect? Oh no, you know nothing about physics. A doctor? Where's your knowledge of biology? You can't get around the fact that whether you learn at university or not, at some point someone is going to have to teach you how to do the job. And you think they'll do that out of the goodness of their hearts? Especially when the son of some rich person is willing to pay for the privilige?
Employer???? You mean partner. If there wasn't a big man with a gun in the picture, you would demand a fair deal and get it, and so would everyone else.
Where the hell do you all learn this helplessness from?
Piece of piss. You can learn everything on the job. You are forgetting that everything known about architecture (everything known about everything actually) was discovered by someone and then told to others.
I'm not being funny here, but the amount of people who leave Uni with a big bucket full of theory and fuck all knowledge is almost a cliche. You learn the theory and then you learn the practical side of things and it's somehow all supposed to hang together and work. When I worked in industry we had many, many people through who had qualifications who were fucking useless at their job. As far as I could see what they had learned got in the way.
I am sorry, I really don't get this at all. Human beings won't pay for things unless there is something in it for them, so you have to have a government to make them do it. What's a government made up of again? Floor tiles? Skin rashes? Oh no, it's made up of people. So either the people who work for the government have magical abilitiies that the rest of the human race misses or you are talking out of your hat.
I have my own business (two actually) you would have to chuck an awful lot of money at me to make me risk my business reputation on some fuckwit. Other things being equal, I would take a bribe to train up a rich man's son over an equally talented poor man's son, but it's never going to make me choose a thick rich kid over a brilliant poor one. Self interest again, see?
Have the first link I could find by New York's teacher of the year John Gatto.
http://www.life.ca/nl/40/gatto.html
Ahh, finally we true colours start to emerge.
Well klintock, credit where it's due... :rolleyes: At least you're being honest about your sentiments towards your fellow human beings. Then again you're not a Christian either, and my original question was posed to those who claim to be Christians and didn't believe in paying taxes.
"Taxation is theft blah blah blah".
Bollocks it is.
If anything, property and wealth are theft. :rolleyes:
I'd agree with this to an extent.
But I'd love to see figures of what is spent on traffic wardens, Trident, politicians, Sir Humphrey, more politicians and more Sir Humphreys ahead of what is spent on the poor and the needy.
It's a lovely idea to claim that taxation is all about helping the poor, and its some wonderful thing; the truth is that some helps the poor and needy, but that's only so the thieves who cream off most of it can justify their theft. It's a convenient little excuse, but the raison d'etre of taxation is not to help the poor and needy, its to help the politicians live in Belgravia.
Taxation is about funding the people who rape us and rob us, not about funding the poor. That is exactly why politicians are on a hundred grand each, plus expenses, for what is an unskilled job, and why the NHS and education system is crumbling down around our ears.
They can find the money for Trident and ID cards, and PPIs, but not for hospitals that we have a say in. They can find the money to pay themselves a hundred grand, but not enough to keep public libraries and nursing homes open.
If you are on a low income, your insurance is lower, because you are protecting less. Simple. We are all born with nothing Al, not millionaires who are robbed by the "bosses".
So you admit that your love about taxation is that you can get something for nothing out of it?
All humans are like this. If you think it's different you probably believe what people say instead of looking how they act. Who was that indvidual person you would be willing to give several thousand pounds to again?
Bobbins. If you get a job were you aren't properly paid, guess what, you are still better off than if you had no job. You are being robbed, sure but you are also being enriched. All wealth has to be created. Factories etc don't just grow out of the ground, everything takes effort. If you can't see that someone who builds a factory and makes lots of stuff for everyone is automatically doing the world a favour then theres something wrong with you.
What an absurd statement.
A factory is just a building mate. I didn't say what went on there.
if you think nuclear weapons are good for defence, then the factory is a good thing. if not then not, obviously. Yiou've still made more usable stuff than we previously had. People are still richer than if you hadn't bothered.
A favour has still been done to the world, because it adds to the wealth we have. Economically, anyway.
No it's not at all. It's about helping the disadvantaged. I doubt you would ever understand that concept though.
What a bizarre concept of things you have...
You really have a bizarre view of what constitutes "wealth".