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Women 'deserve' to be raped

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, whatever. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You seem to have a slight talent in analysing posts and summing them up in as radical a rhetorical question as possible.


    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    but it can be prevented in some cases

    And the person responsible for that should be?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Oh you are being such a fool.

    Like it or not rape is primarily an act of violence carried out by men against women. So is domestic violence.

    I am actually fed up of your bleatings that its "sexism" to point this out. All rape victims should be treated equally, but women are far more likely to be raped or attacked, so the focus is on them.

    It isn't sexist to point out that nearly 90% of all incidents of DV are carried out by men.

    It really does piss me off this attitude that its "sexist" to point out that women have a much shitter time of it than men.

    MoonRat is a lot of things, but she isn't sexist. But then anyone who tries to claim that women are equal is labelled as sexist by fools.


    i werent talking about this thread in terms of the poster in question, i was pointing out it dont take a white male to be bigotted

    and im all for treating people equally thank you very much

    and AGAIN i repeat that im questioning the methods of this survey since the official source doesn't say what they said and asked exactly


    found the story in particular that says the amount of men suffering DV is only 2/3 of the amount to women which is still a HUGE proportion so don't complain about my whinging which is perfectly valid

    http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article326826.ece

    or http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1449
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think in whatever situation people have to use commonsense to weigh up the odds and do things that limit risk. I don't think women that flirt and dress in short skirts are to blame but by making such decisions they increase possible risk to themselves.

    For instance I just booked my cousin's coach trip from London to Brighton and put him down to leave London at 4pm.

    He says to me "isn't it better I leave on the 8pm coach?"

    and I said "No because it means you'll be leaving here in total darkness, making your way through central London in total darkness and arriving back in Brighton in total darkness"

    I'd rather he left here earlier and at least have it be daylight until he's safe on the coach, which then drops him off inside of his university grounds.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Wrong. Your unconscious controls all of your actions. It feeds only those thoughts it wants acting on into the conscious. This is why the conscious mind cannot give up smoking until the unconscious wants to, as an example.

    That's debatable. The given example doesn't support your opinion at all. There are too many factors in that scenario. People consciously quit cold turkey all of the time.

    The subconscious controls most (if not all) of our passive actions. Instincts, memories, and dreams would be examples of subconsciously controlled actions.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Violette wrote:
    I do think it is leading a lad on a bit if you're all over him all night. I don't think women deserve it but it can be prevented in some cases.

    It can be prevented?

    Of course it can be prevented. Men can stop committing acts of great violence against women.

    But if you think prevention means wearing hessian sacking and staying at home drinking tea then you are fucking idiot.

    There's one way it can be prevented, and that is nothing to do with women, and everything to do with men.

    Unless you mean that lads are so thick and defenceless that they can't be trusted to understand what no means? Obviously women are some sexual monster, preying on poor little boys and making them do things they wouldn't do. The sight of a bit of flesh and they're pinning someone down and performing a violent act on them before they can even say "the slut was asking for it".

    What century is this, the 12th?

    Of course, all this misses out the crucial point that rape is not about sexual gratification, it is about power, control and humiliation.

    And it also misses out the crucial point that most rapists are known to their victims.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and AGAIN i repeat that im questioning the methods of this survey since the official source doesn't say what they said and asked exactly

    I seriously doubt Amnesty International were out to get this response.

    The point is that a large amount of people think like this.

    You only need to look at Violette's posts to see that people think that women who are sexually active should "prevent" rape by not being flirty and wearing sexy clothing. People like Violette say that rape is "preventable", but then say it is the woman's job to prevent it, not the man's.

    That sounds awfully like the ancient Biblical belief that if a woman was raped in a village and wasn't discovered she obviously wanted it as she didn't scream loud enough.

    I can't read the article you posted, I'm not a subscriber. The second one was irrelevant to anything.

    You, and a couple of others, do start this on every thread about violence to women though. It's always "think about the men!"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think in whatever situation people have to use commonsense to weigh up the odds and do things that limit risk. I don't think women that flirt and dress in short skirts are to blame but by making such decisions they increase possible risk to themselves.

    For instance I just booked my cousin's coach trip from London to Brighton and put him down to leave London at 4pm.

    He says to me "isn't it better I leave on the 8pm coach?"

    and I said "No because it means you'll be leaving here in total darkness, making your way through central London in total darkness and arriving back in Brighton in total darkness"

    I'd rather he left here earlier and at least have it be daylight until he's safe on the coach, which then drops him off inside of his university grounds.

    London isnt a den of sin, its really quite safe.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I seriously doubt Amnesty International were out to get this response.

    I wouldnt be so sure their out to highlight the problems with peoples attitudes as they see them, the kind of responce theyve got strenghens their case and gets them more publicity.
    Kermit wrote:
    That sounds awfully like the ancient Biblical belief that if a woman was raped in a village and wasn't discovered she obviously wanted it as she didn't scream loud enough.

    This is a totaly different situation where if the women was consenting she would be killed anyway, so theres much more of a reason to claime rape than exists today.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    and AGAIN i repeat that im questioning the methods of this survey since the official source doesn't say what they said and asked exactly

    Errrr...yes it does

    http://www.amnesty.org.uk/images/ul/s/sexual_assault_summary_report_2.doc
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru

    and I said "No because it means you'll be leaving here in total darkness, making your way through central London in total darkness and arriving back in Brighton in total darkness"

    I take it you've never been to London then - total darkness there ain't. It also gets dark not long after 4pm.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:

    No it dosnt theres always an introduction and linking script that wasnt shown, the question were there but there could be much more to it than meets the eye.

    If you notice it says research summary so its not showing the linking script, or the introduction or any definitions that might have been offered.

    Why did amnasty comission the survey was it just to find information or was it to give them something to generate publicity with ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ring 'em up and find out, or call ICM.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I take it you've never been to London then - total darkness there ain't. It also gets dark not long after 4pm.


    By which time he'd already be at the Coach Station
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Ring 'em up and find out, or call ICM.

    I worked for ICM for a few years as a student and in my year out (drop out year) as a telephone interviewer and as a supervisor, there is always an introduction explaining what the surveys about, always some linking script this wasnt shown.
    The only surveys I worked on where people wanted a genuine responce was product information from customers (which is never published) or voting intentions, (because theres a pretty big test)

    All the other ones were biased towards a particular type of responce.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By which time he'd already be at the Coach Station

    London doesnt get suddenly really dangerous after dark, and as Blagsta pointed out, it doesnt really get dark anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and moonrat i have been the victim of racism before so i know how it feels, there' evil and/or stupid bigotted scum who aren't just white and male out there, i've read some extremely sexist comments from you before, which says it all
    Maybe you should re-read what I said and think of it in a different light. Racism does go both ways and I'm in no way denying that there aren't biggoted black, chinese ect people who have issues with other skin colours and cultures. But you bringing up the whole male rape thing and using that against the rape statistics by Amnesty is like going to an anti-racism campaign and yelling about how black people can discriminate back. Obviously it is an issue in itself, but not the same issue.

    And please, quote where I've been "extremely sexist" as I'm not in the least. Being a feminist isn't sexist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Violette wrote:
    Whatevs.

    I used the girl who lied because it was the only situation I know well. To be honest, I do think it is leading a lad on a bit if you're all over him all night. And it was my mate who I was talking to it about, she just doesn't come on here. I don't think women deserve it but it can be prevented in some cases.

    You know, no matter how much you 'lead' somebody on... Your body is your own and i]nobody[/i] has the right to hurt you or touch you where you don't want.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By the way, thoughout history rape has been an issue... I don't think it has anything to do with fashion, or a woman expressing herself as a sexual creature, rather than a frigid mechanism for childbirth. It's just that these days,rape is actually reported and people do take notice of it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The questions are actually clearly shown:
    Amnesty wrote:
    Q3. I am now going to read out a series of scenarios which a woman may find herself in. In each could you please indicate whether you believe a woman is totally responsible, partially responsible or not at all responsible for being raped if…

    a) The woman is drunk
    b) The woman has behaved in a flirtatious manner
    c) The woman has failed to say ‘no’ clearly to the man
    d) A woman is wearing sexy or revealing clothes
    e) It is known that the woman has many sexual partners
    f) The woman is alone and walking in a dangerous or deserted area

    And it's also telling that men are more likely to believe that than women.
    Amnesty wrote:
    Interestingly, males were more likely to think this makes a woman ‘partially’ responsible compared to females (22% vs17%).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Violette wrote:
    Whatevs.

    I used the girl who lied because it was the only situation I know well. To be honest, I do think it is leading a lad on a bit if you're all over him all night. And it was my mate who I was talking to it about, she just doesn't come on here. I don't think women deserve it but it can be prevented in some cases.

    Just because a girl gets off with a guy doesn't mean he's guaranteed sex though.

    Unless you're to ban all women from flirting unless they're 100% deffo going to have sex that night then it's not something a woman can prevent.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    The questions are actually clearly shown:



    And it's also telling that men are more likely to believe that than women.


    Dosnt show linking scriptor introductions, they could have had a lenghly link stating about worries about promiscuity amungst young women, about a increase in sexualy transmitted diseases, could heve had an explanation that caried a quote form "a well known feminist" who said "young women are taking to many risks ad are too promiscus".

    could have had previous questions that prompted the respondent to agree that young women are taking too many risks,

    "do you agree or disagree that too many young women are engaje in sexual intercourse whilst drunk"
    "do you think young women need to take more responcibility for their sexual behavure"
    "Do you think there is too much of a permisive culture" after quoting sonme statistics of STD's

    some people have said...... do you agree or disagree
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The questions are listed.

    Well then.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and if you read it, gender doesn't affect the results too much other than on dressing

    the older the person the more reposnsibility they put on the woman
    the lower the SE class the higher the repsonsibility attributed

    and it concludes about a quarter (between a third and a fifth) of people are bigots, sounds about right from experience


    it's not that useful a survey still imo


    (reading from blagsta's link)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    The questions are listed.

    Well then.



    it doesnt provide the full method..... it's more of a results thing than a whole experimental


    and the possible answers using responsibility, a better idea would be to use the word blame to find out attiudes since "responsiblity != blame" do you not agree using the word blame would get a better idea of attitudes


    theres plenty of scenarios when i can say someone is partially responsible (as a person is always partially responsible for their situation even if only on a absolutly near zero level) whilst saying "it's not their fault though" - most people in most polls provide on average, the most inbetween answer if they're unsure exactly how to judge
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't get it at all really...

    Something this awful comes out and then people try to partially lift the blame off rapists, or make it seem like it's the woman's fault... Every time you get statistics about the treatment of women, you get certain people getting defensive, saying "ohh but xxx happens to men" when the thread is about women, not men... Or they accuse this or that of sexism...

    At the end of the day this is a woman's issue.

    Furthermore, fuck people if they think I shouldn't be allowed to flirt... If rape is my punishment for not being a frigid housewife... Rape is more talked about and more reported than ever and now something this terrible is put to light, it' as if people don't care.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i debated about this with a friend last night.....at first he said he agreed
    and at the end he turned round and said it can happen to men to then told me to shut up
    but i thought well over 90% of actual rape cases the woman was the victim still? and some that involved men as the victims another man was still the attacker?

    i also think its stupid when rapists try to defend themselves, there's no excuse.
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