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should poland leave the EU

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And if they don't maximise their profits we also end up paying other ways like increasing taxes, less money to put into public services, bankruptcy and mass unemployment and being forced to bite the bullet for economic change years after we could have done it in a less painful fashion.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Assuming the decision was purely economical, because they have deprived people of their livelihoods purely to maximise profits?

    But that has benefited the Ukrainians hasn't it? Seeing as Ukraine is poorer than Poland how can this be an entirely bad thing?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    And if they don't maximise their profits we also end up paying other ways like increasing taxes, less money to put into public services, bankruptcy and mass unemployment and being forced to bite the bullet for economic change years after we could have done it in a less painful fashion.

    So we're screwed either way then? Capitalism - gotta love it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    So we're screwed either way then? Capitalism - gotta love it.

    yes, but think on the positive side - we'd be even more screwed under a pure socialist economy...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    But that has benefited the Ukrainians hasn't it? Seeing as Ukraine is poorer than Poland how can this be an entirely bad thing?
    Because people who held the job in the first place have been deprived of their livelihood for no reason other than increasing dividends for shareholders.

    It's entirely reprehensible.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    yes, but think on the positive side - we'd be even more screwed under a pure socialist economy...

    How do you work that one out?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    How do you work that one out?

    The same way you work out its going to be a paradise - we look at how the economy works now and theorisie how it would work under a socialist economy. You seem to believe that people believe in equality and will work just as efficiently under a system which gives them no personal reward. I don't...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You seem to have misunderstood socialism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Because people who held the job in the first place have been deprived of their livelihood for no reason other than increasing dividends for shareholders.

    It's entirely reprehensible.

    By that understanding then jobs would never be given to foreigners, or moved abroard.

    In what way is that good for development, the reduction of poverty, or inequality?

    Just because the motivation is not a good one, it does not mean the consequences have to be bad.......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    By that understanding then jobs would never be given to foreigners, or moved abroard.
    Not quite. We're talking about vulture employers seeking the lowest common denomination. They're doing no favours either at home (for sacking established employees simply to seek for basement cheap labour elsewhere) or abroad, for perpetuating slave-wage labour.

    Normal employers seeking talent or workers abroad for a decent wage are not a bad thing. Greedy employers sacking workers at home because an opportunity has materialised to hire semi-slaves elsewhere are a cancer to society.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you know these people are 'semi-slaves' (whatever that means) or how these Ukrainians pay compares to pay they would get elsewhere?

    The fact that these Ukrainians are willing to take these jobs suggests that they are better than their previous situation wouldn't you say?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Individually they might be better off- but it does not benefit their countrymen. Not to mention the men who lost the jobs in the first place, and their own countrymen.

    The only consequences of such actions in the long term are substantial increase of unemployment in the first country and perpetuation of sweatshop wages in the second. And the only long term beneficiaries are the employers in question.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    The only consequences of such actions in the long term are substantial increase of unemployment in the first country and perpetuation of sweatshop wages in the second. And the only long term beneficiaries are the employers in question.

    Except that's not true is it? They'll probably be paid far more than others in the Ukraine and so Ukranian firms (and other international companies who invest in the Ukraine) will be forced to up their wages to compete and get the best people.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What it usually does is actually force down wages. That's what has happened to the construction industry in the UK with the opening of borders.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Except that's not true is it? They'll probably be paid far more than others in the Ukraine and so Ukranian firms (and other international companies who invest in the Ukraine) will be forced to up their wages to compete and get the best people.
    I doubt it. The reason this company has fired its employees is to find cheaper labour elsewhere. They don't need to offer a cent over the going rate in Ukraine. They just want to fill the positions with the cheapest possible labour they can find.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can't get into it right now, have to do some work, but.......

    you are wrong.

    Will be back with more detail soon........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I doubt it. The reason this company has fired its employees is to find cheaper labour elsewhere. They don't need to offer a cent over the going rate in Ukraine. They just want to fill the positions with the cheapest possible labour they can find.

    They can pay above the market rate, still make savings and get the best local labour. After all why would you swap jobs unless its giving you a better deal and all firms want the best people they can
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So what actually happens is that some people gain by others getting screwed.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Blagsta wrote:
    So what actually happens is that some people gain by others getting screwed.

    That is the non-BS way of putting it. It looks far nicer with all the dressing though, wouldn't you agree? Can't have people thinking they are getting screwed...
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