Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options

Happy Birthday Maggie!

1246716

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Why was that good?


    why should BA be under control of our government :s doesn't make sense, much like why i dont see why we subsidise aircraft manufacturers :S
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As for Slippy's usual illinformed comments, sadly I didn't get to vote against her, I was "only" seventeen when she stood for election for the last time. I did get to vote against the party she was leading a couple of times though. Does that mean I can criticise her?

    I have said I am 17 many times you twit. The point is most people my age are influenced by the bias against Thatcher, and automatically hate Thatcherism with out knowing anything about it. Other then it was really really bad because The Guardian says it was.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have said I am 17 many times you twit.

    :confused:

    Surely that should be aimed at Blagsta. I never asked how old you are... partly because your immaturity shine through in many of your posts ;):p
    The point is most people my age are influenced by the bias against Thatcher, and automatically hate Thatcherism with out knowing anything about it.

    Like Rich Kid you mean, or True Blue (if it's not the same person)...

    I think what you mean is some people of your age will be influenced. Anyone listening for the Radio today will have got more than one viewpoint. Anyone reading history will too. Thing is you have to make up your own mind.

    Personally, I think her policies sucked in many cases, weren't thought through in others (such as Poll Tax) and were spot on in others. I think she lead her country from being almost ungovernable (which is what was said at the time) to being strong again. The downside of that was the impact on the "society" when we went from a "we" culture to a "me" one. We are still feeling the effects of that...
    Other then it was really really bad because The Guardian says it was.

    TBH if you believe the Guardian then you deserve everything you get. Sadly too many people forget that it has just as much of an agenda as Murdocks Toilet Papers do...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    your immaturity shine through in many of your posts

    And your immaturity shines through in every post, in the semblance of ultra left liberalism. ;)
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ultra left liberalism. ;)

    :lol:

    I've never been accused of that before...
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bannings are permanent, which is why we spend so damn long trying to avoid them, when people with no interest or respect for anything this charity is doing repeatedly sign up they can't expect it to be banned again.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And as another point, if anyone thinks that someone is a banned member who is signed up again then there is a reason why there's a 'report post' button - please use it or drop me a line at jim@thesite.org
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    maggies a cunt

    'crime is crime is crime'

    she threw a few spanners into the works over here during her time

    infact i hope she dies
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the changes in the economy were engineered by closing manufacturing down.
    textile workers steel workers miners ..heavy engineering ...smash the unions by all mean if she thought that was what was needed.
    to throw millions of people on the scrap heap intentionaly for the pockets of a few is unforgivable.
    some areas in wales have lost their engineering and mining ...plus the local shops that lived off these industries have gone...plus many self employed people on the dole.
    thee areas now have heroin ...cannabis and coke.
    there are few other comodities that people can trade ...still ...25yrs on.

    These events were not engineered by Thatcher and her government and were mainly caused by the discovery of oil in the late 70s and the resulting shift of production from traded to non-traded goods.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote:
    These events were not engineered by Thatcher and her government and were mainly caused by the discovery of oil in the late 70s and the resulting shift of production from traded to non-traded goods.

    Still spouting your own unique view of history I see.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Doea anyone beleive that had we had a Labour govt in the 80s that we would still have the same level of industry and coal mining as we had in the 70s now?
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Toadborg wrote:
    Doea anyone beleive that had we had a Labour govt in the 80s that we would still have the same level of industry and coal mining as we had in the 70s now?

    Not really.

    But we might actually have more than we do now. Which would be a fucking bonus, as we lack nearly any. Takes the piss.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What is wrong with that exactly?
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Look where it all is now - Asia. Around China. What happens if relations with China fail and the worst coems to the worst? (Which it wouldn't supprise me - the way Bush is going...) We get nothing. All the things we import made over there - stopped.

    Be a bit of a bad situation. Trade Defecits are never fun. A nation that cannot support itself has a critical weakness.

    Not even China need be involved - someone in a war blockading us - nothing coming in - oh shit, we are doomed.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No nation can support itself.

    The interdependence that trade fosters does mean that a major war would be catastrophic but this very fact makes major war far less likely.......

    There is no reason for Britain to have a large manufacturing sector
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So instead its outsourced to countries that have fewer labour laws, fewer environmental laws etc so companies can make even more profit.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    An interesting attitude to take.

    Surely you would support the development of poorer countries?

    The evidence on environmental exploitation as a result of industry movements is mixed......
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    An interesting attitude to take.

    Surely you would support the development of poorer countries?

    Did I say any different?
    Toadborg wrote:
    The evidence on environmental exploitation as a result of industry movements is mixed......

    Is it? Quote some.
  • Options
    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    So, development/exloitation... the old argument. Are we hleping them by paying them a terribly low wage, or exploiting them?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The important thing to focus on is the improvement in comparison to peoples previous jobs.

    No-one supports exploitation but I think you will find that the wages paid in most factories in the developing world are far better than those paid to farm labourers in the same country for example and it is easy to lose sight of that....
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:


    Is it? Quote some.

    Yes.......

    Conrad, K (1993) – “Taxes and Subsidies for Pollution-Intensive Industries as Trade Policy”, Journal of Environmental Economics and Management, 25(2), pp 121-135.

    Rock, M (1996) – “Pollution Intensity of GDP and Trade Policy: Can the World Bank be Wrong?” World Development, 24(3), pp 471-479.

    Baumol, W and Oates, W (1988) – “The Theory of Environmental Policy, Second Edition”, Cambridge University Press.

    Muradian, R, O’Connor, M and Martinez-Alier, J (2002) – “Embodies Pollution in trade: Estimating the ‘Environmental Land Displacement’ of Industrialised countries”, Ecological Economics, 41, pp 51-67.

    Birdsall, N and Wheeler, D (1992) – “Trade Policy and Industrial Pollution in Latin America: Where are the Pollution Havens?” in Low, P (ed) – “International Trade and the Environment”, World Bank Discussion Papers, No. 159, pp 159-168.

    No idea if you can get to these as i did it through a library subscription at university.........
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not a lot of point referencing things that I can't read. Anyway, I could reference stuff about how multinational companies move overseas to exploit lax labour laws and environmental laws. Check out Naomi Klein's "No Logo" for a start.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    So, development/exloitation... the old argument. Are we hleping them by paying them a terribly low wage, or exploiting them?

    If we are forcing women and children to work 18 hour days for a pittance and making it illegal to form trade unions and in fact killing anyone involved in trade union activity, then yes, thats exploitation.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Not a lot of point referencing things that I can't read. Anyway, I could reference stuff about how multinational companies move overseas to exploit lax labour laws and environmental laws. Check out Naomi Klein's "No Logo" for a start.

    Go on then.

    I am sure you realise Naomi Klein's "No Logo" does not compare to proper academic research.....

    Like I say the evidence is mixed, there clearly are cases where 'expltation' does occur but how widespread it is and whether it is a common feature of industrialisation in the developed world is not clear.......
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    If we are forcing women and children to work 18 hour days for a pittance and making it illegal to form trade unions and in fact killing anyone involved in trade union activity, then yes, thats exploitation.

    But were they doing that before anyway?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why do you think companies move abroad in the first place?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because it is cheaper generally, though there are other reasons........
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Because it is cheaper generally, though there are other reasons........

    Exactly. It is cheaper. Why is it cheaper? Because the economies are less developed etc, but also because there are generally far less stringent labour laws and union activity is stamped out with violence. For example, Coca-Cola in Columbia.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes and that would be an issue for those countries govts.

    What exactly are you saying?

    It seems to me that you are saying that the poor are in a bad way and we are going to leave them like that.

    I would have to find out but I am guessing that labour laws etc probably weren't that good in S.Korea 50 years ago and they are probable better now?

    Why is that?

    One of the reasons I would say is that these countries achieved industrialisation and development (partly with due to the role of foreign companies and investors), that made people better off and in turn gave them a stronger position, as well as leading to a democracy.....

    Do you think it is a coincidence that there is such a high correlation between democracy and wealth?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You seem to assume that just because I am opposed to Western businesses exploiting people, that I think its OK for indigenous people to exploit their own. I don't know how you come to that conclusion. :confused:
Sign In or Register to comment.