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Comments
I find your post to be extremely distasteful.
However, of course you are welcome to your view, though in my professional opinion, you are making ill judged and prejudiced remarks. I have worked in psychiatry for 17 years - As a Charge Nurse, and Nursing Home Group senior manager. So unlike you I know what I am talking about. Plus the fact as a disabled person, I feel a personal grievance.
If you are basing an argument around information taken from a TV programme, which really shows you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
I have noticed on several postings about drugs, you have told people to F**K OFF, when they appear not to know what they are talking about. You are quick to criticize them, hopefully you will accept this criticism with good grace.
You state that providing disabled people do not have intelligence or ability they should be put down. How would you decide the cut-off point with intelligence and ability? where would you draw the line?
I have dedicated the whole of my working life to caring for people with severe mental health problems - particularly dementia (a massive brain disease (to use your words), which usually affects older people).
I have nursed numerous professional people, such as retired bank managers, doctors and one particular gentleman who before he retired was the managing director of one of the UK's largest companies. Nearly all these people could tell me in detail about their past private and professional lives (as their long term memory was perfect), but they did not have a clue what day it was. I have seen severely demented women bake cakes, make bread (surely an ability?), but are unable to tell what year it is. I have heard people with dementia recall the sonnets of William Shakespeare (surely showing intelligence?), but were incontinent of faeces.
So how do you know people who have "brain disease" don't have a meaning in life? Depending on the care they receive, it can be very much the case. By the way, I do not understand your logic that because “they” receive help, they have no meaning in life. Being disabled my wife has to help me, does that mean I have no meaning to my life, and should I be put down?
You mention about the cost to the government.
Many of the people with dementia have worked their entire lives, paying taxes and National Insurance Contributions which started the NHS in the first place!
So why the hell should they not be entitled to some of the money back in the form of hospital/nursing home care, now they need it, they have bloody well paid for it.
A society should be judged by the care it gives those who are unable to care for themselves. What you are advocating is obscene.
Adolf Hitler actually had the same view as you concerning disabled babies and adults, he had them "put down". Are you sure you mean what you say?
You said that that government cash should not be used to fund hospitals for the care of disabled, as it is a waste (for the sake of the argument I will ignore the fact that the majority of care is now within the community),
On various postings on the drugs site, you have stated you have been addicted to heroin and speed. How much cash is used in the treatment of addicts in rehab, care in accident and emergency after overdose, drug awareness programmes, etc?
I am sure you would be offended if I said, don't bother treating an addict who has o/d, because they are likely to do it again, and it’s a waste of money!
Incidentally in all my time in nursing I have never seen a straightjacket, this includes time spent at Rampton secure unit, or have met anyone who within the past 30 years has seen one either.
[This message has been edited by derby county (edited 07-09-2000).]
On reflection I think I over-reacted to your post, so I would like to say sorry -
I also think your comments about euthanasia
are also very valid. Perhaps we should start a thread about it, to see what other people think. Especially in light of the emotive case of the siamese twins.
best wishes derby
From a personal point of view, I guess I lean towards a pro-abortion mentality, although I do disagree with it [if that makes any sense at all!]
I thought about this for a long time, and all of the situations a woman wanting abortion may be in [age, marital/emotional/financial status, etc] but I guess there is one leading problem [in my mind] as far as abortion is concerned. It's a very small minority of well-off, married women who have abortions. It tends to be the desperate ones.
Most of my family are from Ireland, and although I'm not a strict Catholic [like them] and have been brought up in England, I do believe that it's wrong. Not a 'sin' though. There are many cases [just look at the whole teenage pregnancy issue] in which an abortion would be the right choice. As I know only too well, a child is better off just being there at all.
In Ireland's case, religion appears to over-rule common sense. It's always been drilled into me that sex before marriage, contraception, illegitamate babies and of course, abortion are the type of 'sins' a girl would burn in hell for. Which is bullshit. Abortion IS wrong, but for as long as sex is a taboo subject and teenagers [speaking from a purely personal point of view] can't approach their parents about the Pill or condoms, then the more likely they are to find themselves up the duff with only one option left.
It's cruel, but it's needed. Lives are better off all round in most cases.
*|* Chica *|*
Stay Calm <IMG alt="image" SRC="http://www.thesite.org/ubb/mad.gif">
I don't think that many people over here know about the live, in utero, dismemberment in late termination. I saw a program about it once, which I had to turn off. It left me extremely disturbed and obviously led to my views on abortion.
I think that they should explain the mechanics of every stage of abortion in school, alongside sex education. I wonder how many women who have late term abortions have exactly what happens explained to them.
J9
There are plenty of childless couples wanting to adopt babies but you cannot explain this to a selfish person when all they care about is their own welfare.
During this discussion I have tried to be sympathetic towards women with unwanted pregnancies but the more and more I come back to this discussion it sickens my stomach.
When I was pregnant I was obsessed with looking at pictures in parenting magazines so I could get an idea of what my baby looked like at every stage. I cannot believe that terminations r available so late in the pregnancy when on my daughter's 19 week scan she looked like a perfect little human being moving around in my womb.
I just don't understand it. How can a society that is sickened by children being murdered allow this to happen?
" Humanists regard abortion as better than bringing unwanted babies into the world."
But, at least in America, we can't even enact this simple and inoffensive regulation because the court immediately rules that it violates the Constitution, which as I said before, makes no mention of abortion. In recent years, under growing pressure from the public, the court has allowed *some* degree of regulation on abortion, although it ultimately is rendered meaningless because the court requires that abortionists themselves provide the fetal development information to the women. And of course we know how enthusiatic they are about convincing a woman not to abort. To this day, though, there has not been one law requiring a pre-abortion ultrasound that has not been struck down by our imperial court
system.
The fact is that the "pro-choice" movement in my country is not that at all, it is pro-ABORTION. They actually believe that abortion should be used for utilitarian social reasons and they want to promote and encourage it the best they can for this purpose. To do this they must promote ignorance of fetal development and of barbarous abortion procedures among the general public, but particularly among young women for obvious reasons. That is why they oppose even the most modest of regulations that could reduce abortions by simply informing and educating. They are extremely powerful but we will continue to fight them and we will ultimately win because we have the truth. If it is not true that butchering a child is evil, then there is no truth.
Firstly I will say it is completely up to the parents to decide.
I personally do not agree with abortion. I am a christian, I believe that life should always be given a chance. Christianity forbids abortion, amongst other things.
I agree that adequete contraception should be used if a child is not wanted. However, as Gwai says, if you dont want a child, and you use contraception, you should still be aware of the responsibilities of caring for a child.
Beetle wings may "hate" children, and may never want them, but Gwai's reply pretty much sums that up. Go and get sterilised! It is ok to express your opinion on these boards, that what they are for, but for each opion there is an arguement.
I am not saying to anyone, "dont get an abortion". I am simply saying that you should consider strongly what it is that you are doing, and that abortion should be a last option, if the child is not wanted. Again, as Gwai said there is always adoption?
The whole process of giving birth, is for the simple reason of the survival of the human species. If abortion started to dominate, then the population of humans would slowly decrease, unless science came up with a superb process in which to keep the population constant without actualy having to give birth. Or that god performed a miracle!
So as you can see I am against abortion, but not other peoples decision's to have an abortion, as long as they have thouroughly thought about it!
pregnancy obviously throw around loads of emotion, abortion is a huge decision to make, and i feel that if thats the decision some1 feels would b 4 the best then thats up to them, they would need all the support they could get, wether or not u agreed, its their life.
love helly