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Let's do some sums..

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Klintock is surely right that countries, nationalities and races are fictions of our minds (and demonstrably they create conflict moonrat), but I absolutely agree that it's worthless to our debates pointing this out - people's fear instinct is too strong. Also I suspect Klintock isn't quite being honest about his scepticism about attitudes of identification, since he is so keen to convert us to his attitude.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah but the guy makes no sense... His words aren't even whimsical or meaningful... At least to me.

    It's pretty simple. There are no states, nations or countries. They are all fictional, arbitary distinctions invented for whatever reason at some point and now, unfortunately, they are being used in a variety of ways, most of which are bad.
    There may be an argument for that (though imho a false one), but Klintock isn't saying countries are bad - he is saying they do not exist. As that is so obviously false and is brought up at randomn times and when other things are being discussed its not really helpful to most debates.

    How do they "obviously exist"? I have never been given any proof of the existence of a country, nation or state.
    i don't know why myself but i can see where klintock is coming from in all his arguments...i just don't think they're good one's though...

    Fair enough.
    Klintock is surely right that countries, nationalities and races are fictions of our minds (and demonstrably they create conflict moonrat), but I absolutely agree that it's worthless to our debates pointing this out - people's fear instinct is too strong. Also I suspect Klintock isn't quite being honest about his scepticism about attitudes of identification, since he is so keen to convert us to his attitude.

    Interesting last point and something for me to think about. Cheers, MM. :wave:

    The relevance to all political debate would be obvious, I would have thought. For a start it means that all politicians are either liars or fools and that most populations have been cruelly duped. Oh, and fear of what?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Fair enough.

    i do believe there's reasoning behind them all...i know there's no real such thing as countries and all that, i know the ideas of nationality and all have created so many problems, and deaths, too many for my liking but if humans want to sustain themselves economically and have a good life, these things are essential for our development, bit like the "state" aswell...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do they "obviously exist"? I have never been given any proof of the existence of a country, nation or state.

    I gave you proof in the first thread you ever did - my passport, previous job and current job all point to the existence of a state. If you ignore or don't accept that proof I can hardly force you to accept reality.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    but if humans want to sustain themselves economically and have a good life, these things are essential for our development, bit like the "state" aswell...

    I worry that the opposite is true.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I gave you proof in the first thread you ever did - my passport, previous job and current job all point to the existence of a state. If you ignore or don't accept that proof I can hardly force you to accept reality.

    Your passport is just paper and ink. It means whatever you can convince someone else it means. I have no idea what job you do, but I would suggest that by pretending to work for the "state" you give credence to the belief that there is one, not the other way around.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    morrismarina wrote:
    I worry that the opposite is true.

    remove the state, remove countries, what will happen...America's trade ties with Germany won't exist anymore, the representatives from each country aren't going to trade with the other countries goods because "their goods are now our goods" if it's only one country...result...total chaos!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A state is real because of the power it has over you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Your passport is just paper and ink. It means whatever you can convince someone else it means. I have no idea what job you do, but I would suggest that by pretending to work for the "state" you give credence to the belief that there is one, not the other way around.

    I rest my case about your refusal to accept reality.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    remove the state, remove countries, what will happen...America's trade ties with Germany won't exist anymore, the representatives from each country aren't going to trade with the other countries goods because "their goods are now our goods" if it's only one country...result...total chaos!

    You havn't thought that through very well have you.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A state is real because of the power it has over you.

    How does it get that power? If it's only in the minds of men, how does it get that power? Where and when does "it" get this power?
    I rest my case about your refusal to accept reality

    Without making one.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klint ...your friggin obsessed!
    or posessed.

    officialy announced today ...uk population now 60 million ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    remove the state, remove countries, what will happen...America's trade ties with Germany won't exist anymore, the representatives from each country aren't going to trade with the other countries goods because "their goods are now our goods" if it's only one country...result...total chaos!

    Turlough,

    Is this a serious post ? Or one of your tongue-in-cheek moments ?


    seeker
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Turlough,

    Is this a serious post ? Or one of your tongue-in-cheek moments ?


    seeker

    whatever you want to take from it...i can't even remember posting it and i wasn't even drunk earlier :confused: why do my posts usually come across as tongue in cheek :)
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