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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Surely if there not worth anything (but you need them even to be a brickie) is an argument for making them free. Fair enough (perhaps) if everyone leaving University can wander into a job paying £100k pa, but if there isn't those jobs and the best most people can get is working in their local Sainsburys packing shelves....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    everyone is born equal


    Could you explain what you mean by that ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    because i believe secondary school should be free ( well its not really free, it is payed by the taxpayers ) but that "higher education " should be payed for by the student


    What is your reason for the stated differentiation ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its because too many people have them, they dont mean crap anymore
    that says more about your standards than the actual value of education.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    It does, believe me. I work as an education advisor and believe me, it does.

    Maybe so

    Do you have any idea why?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so we are supposed to pay for there education just because they THINK its a barrier to an education, give it a break

    No, they don't think it is a barrier - it is a barrier. You're a real selfish arsehole y'know that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i never said that, and you know it, what i did say is that graduates with a degree earn more than 4800/year, which is what YOU said ( 20 pounds is a days work. )

    Errr...tax? Rent? Bills? Food? Clothes?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    anyone that entered the construction industry from 2001 HAD to have a degree, yes

    that brickies, roofers, even just labourers

    I'm not quite sure I believe you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Maybe so

    Do you have any idea why?

    Because if someone is in their 30's with no savings and goes to university, they're going to be paying off the loan for the rest of their life with no guarantee of a good salary. Come on, its not difficult to work out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    its because too many people have them, they dont mean crap anymore

    are you serious...there's a shortage here for skilled workers and labourers
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    in fact the only way our economy will stay as good as it is, is by focusing on producing high technology goods, and the research that accompanies it - since we couldnt outdo china or india in terms of cheap labour or economies of scale
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Because if someone is in their 30's with no savings and goes to university, they're going to be paying off the loan for the rest of their life with no guarantee of a good salary. Come on, its not difficult to work out.

    True the issue is different for mature students.

    I think however you are exxagerating, how long do you think it would take to pay back a student loan? The rest of your life? I think not..........

    And also one may ask that if you have no savings i.e. you are impliyng they may be in a bad financial position, and they also have no guarantee of improving their earnings then it seems higlhy reckless to go to university even if it were free..........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta - you knew how many years you'd have to repay the debt. If you're earning £21k now I'm guessing you were on less before you took your degree? If not, something is wrong...

    Say in 6 years time you hit £30k - you'll be at least £9k per year better off than you are now, which is £180k over the next 20 years, should you work to the age of 60.

    Obviously you'll not see the whole £180k, because we're all taxed and whatnot, but you'll still earn far, far more in excess of the debt through what it allowed you to do.

    If having a degree didn't make you more than £15k better off over the 29 years between graduation and retirement, then you picked the wrong degree.

    Again, I don't intend to be personal or participate in any kind of flame war, but I cannot understand how you can't see the logic of getting the degree, and how it has to benefit you financially.

    --Burpy


    But getting a degree is not all about earning more money than everyone else. Talking from personal experience the majority of jobs that I'm interested in I'll need a degree for (hence I'm going to university in September), you could own £50K a year and be incredibly unhappy, stressed and depressed or £12K a year and be the happiest person in the world.

    No idea what you're studying Blagsta, but is it a course and job that'll benefit people or communities? Because they're often not paid all that well.

    The thing is not every job is guarenteed to be well paid... But £7.50 per hour working as say... A project worker is better and more rewarding a job than £4.85 per hour working for a fast food chain and bar, if indeed that field is something that makes your heart sing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    True the issue is different for mature students.

    I think however you are exxagerating, how long do you think it would take to pay back a student loan? The rest of your life? I think not..........


    when i graduate with my Msci ill owe £21k and i worked out itll take 20years to pay back on a wage of 20k id be better off under top up fees system cause ill get a bursary thatll stop me needing so much student loan, and if i dont pay the tuition back in 25years it gets written off

    dont you find it unfair that the student loan gets interestr on it whilst youre studying so ill have 4years of interest on it
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No because the interest is only inflation rate, so it does not increase in real value. If there was no interest then the rael value would decrease and there would be incentive to wait as long as possible to pay it off..........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Out of interest how are you funding you MSc?

    I am currently doing an Msc also........

    Also I would point out that you would across twenty years expect to earn more than an average 20k a year.........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Out of interest how are you funding you MSc?

    I am currently doing an Msc also........

    Also I would point out that you would across twenty years expect to earn more than an average 20k a year.........



    mines a 4year course hehe so its funded like any 1st degree :D

    if i were to drop out id get a BSci Chemistry with Maths
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well that is rather good, wish I could have done that with mine. Postgrad funding is rather difficult at the moment. In my opinion there should be a loan scheme created for postgrads but no-one talks about that........
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No idea what you're studying Blagsta, but is it a course and job that'll benefit people or communities? Because they're often not paid all that well.

    I graduated 3 years ago and now work in the social care field.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Well that is rather good, wish I could have done that with mine. Postgrad funding is rather difficult at the moment. In my opinion there should be a loan scheme created for postgrads but no-one talks about that........


    thats thing postgrads and foreign students subsidise undergrads, whether thats reasonable or not i dont know, but there needs to be more government funding of undergrad study, along with top up fees, so universities dont have to resort to using non-eu students and postgrads
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well to be fair I do not think there are many cases where departments will deliberately pick foreign students over domestic to get more fees.

    My department has many foreign students on pastgrad but that is becasue it is diffiuclt to get UK students to stay for postgrad in economics......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Well to be fair I do not think there are many cases where departments will deliberately pick foreign students over domestic to get more fees.

    My department has many foreign students on pastgrad but that is becasue it is diffiuclt to get UK students to stay for postgrad in economics......

    yup my dept just went on a recuiment drive cause noone from china wants to do chemistry it seems, as it isnt maths or economics or engineering

    my dept has no problems getting uk people to do it, but theyre doing it to get money
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Top tip if you can only get into an average Uni -

    Get a job before you do your "a" levels, and get a degree through the OU. Might take 5 years part time, but it'll take that if you go through college and then to Uni. It's not as much fun but you wind up qualified, debt free and you have a job, probably a place to live and a decent credit history to boot.

    You have to show the bods at the OU you are serious though. They can be abtsy about under 18's.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Top tip if you can only get into an average Uni -

    Get a job before you do your "a" levels, and get a degree through the OU. Might take 5 years part time, but it'll take that if you go through college and then to Uni. It's not as much fun but you wind up qualified, debt free and you have a job, probably a place to live and a decent credit history to boot.

    You have to show the bods at the OU you are serious though. They can be abtsy about under 18's.
    Why does this only apply to students in an 'average' uni?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why does this only apply to students in an 'average' uni?


    top unis for certain subjects have good reps as well cause they do well for that subject
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