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a uk police state

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4207295.stm

charles clarke wants to bring in house arrests for those SUSPECTED of being a threat to national security.....

which brutal tyrants do you want me to compare that too....

if there people were so guilty, charge them, try them and prove them guilty....... if not they can go about as they want, obviously police can obtain tapping orders if they can prove theres some chance theyre guilty


i cant wait to get out of this place, its scary what we're becoming, its the states duty of the burden of proof of guilt, not you proving your innocent

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    guilty till proven innocent and not the other way round these days, as we officially move towards a more democratic world we all know it's getting more like some asian dictatorship, fuck if this is what labour is doing about the whole terror thing i'd hate absolutely hate to see the job the tories would do.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    beatyourself.gif
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4207295.stm

    charles clarke wants to bring in house arrests for those SUSPECTED of being a threat to national security.....

    which brutal tyrants do you want me to compare that too....

    But they were being detained indefinately in prison until the Law Lords said it was unlawfull, at least it's a step in the right direction. It has happened before, fascist political leaders/activists in WW2 were either imprisoned or placed under house arrest.

    Not a perfect solution, but better than locking them up. I personally think that they should be given free reign until proven guilty, but then again I'm just a 17 year old lad with an opinion, the people who make these decisions are probably better informed. But then again, it's our responsibility as citizens to challenge the decisions that are made, so I stand by my opinion :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Its dodgy as fuck and its not just for foreign nationals, it will apply to UK citizens as well. I don't like the way things are headed...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lukesh wrote:
    we, the innocent must be protected!

    what about the guilty people?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lukesh wrote:
    we, the innocent must be protected!
    luke ...for once i agree with you 100%.
    the trouble is ...i'm a threat to national harmony at the moment ...not security but the line that will be drwn between the two will be ...what and where exactly?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i agree with the pair of you
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what i find realy scary isn't the home office spooks and their plans ...it's me and you i find scary ...we have been reduced to passing comment on internet forums ...even worse than the old fashioned ARM CHAIR revolutionarys in my book ...
    IS ANYONE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT ...?NO ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what i find realy scary isn't the home office spooks and their plans ...it's me and you i find scary ...we have been reduced to passing comment on internet forums ...even worse than the old fashioned ARM CHAIR revolutionarys in my book ...
    IS ANYONE DOING ANYTHING ABOUT IT ...?NO ...

    id start a revolution but im too busy with my 10pm appointment with mediaplayer and a video file
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    id start a revolution but im too busy with my 10pm appointment with mediaplayer and a video file
    there is so much truth in that ...the very technology that is slowly suffocating us ...
    yes you can all chortle but ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    there is so much truth in that ...the very technology that is slowly suffocating us ...
    yes you can all chortle but ...

    well i didnt really have that 10pm, but im glad someone picked up on the subtlety of the comment
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Since the Law Lords have been so outrageous to rule that democratic countries cannot imprison people without trial for indefinite periods of time (how dare they eh?), the government has now come up with house arrests.

    You have to wonder what's wrong with the good old 'arrest them, charge them and send them to trial' formula.

    It seems that Britain and Burma have more things in common than just the first letter of their names...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    It seems that Britain and Burma have more things in common than just the first letter of their names...

    Actually we dont share the first letter anymore, its called Myanmar and has been for a while. Sorry.

    As for this, yes, there are some people who want to do the UK harm, but by coming down hard we are only breading more terrorists.

    And where does it end, if you are locking someone up because they are a threat, when do you release them? How do you know when they arent a threat anymore? When they are dead?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Actually we dont share the first letter anymore, its called Myanmar and has been for a while. Sorry.
    Bastard. You ruined my post. :mad: ;)

    I really can't understand why they can't bring them to trial though. The excuse of 'ongoing investigations' is the most pathetic one this government has come up with yet.

    It might all come down to scoring brownie points with our Masters across the pond...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From what I understand the problem lies with getting secret service people to testify, in that they dont like doing so.

    Also some evidence in based on wire taps, which you cant use in court. Plus some of those wire taps might not have been completely legal.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Can't see the problem with just making wire taps admissable evidence as long as they were put in place legally. OK having your phone tapped, following a court order is a slight breach of civil liberties, but less so than being locked up without trial (or being blown to pieces whilst shopping at Woolworths)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Can't see the problem with just making wire taps admissable evidence as long as they were put in place legally. OK having your phone tapped, following a court order is a slight breach of civil liberties, but less so than being locked up without trial (or being blown to pieces whilst shopping at Woolworths)


    i dont mind about phone taps, if to get a court order they have to show a judge that theres is reasonable proof you may be involved in a crime which requires it, what i dont trust is where they only take segments and use it against you, and there is such a thing as context, which peopel do seem to forget these days
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i dont mind about phone taps, if to get a court order they have to show a judge that theres is reasonable proof you may be involved in a crime which requires it, what i dont trust is where they only take segments and use it against you, and there is such a thing as context, which peopel do seem to forget these days

    Not hard to guard against. You just make the Prosecution disclose all the tapes to the defence before trial.

    If they are worried that the tapes making all the tapes available to the defence because it might harm other on-going investigations they'd have to take it to the Judge who could make a ruling, saying that the bits of the tape the prosecution want to keep secret a)not relevant to the defence's case or b) important enough that the defence has a right to them.

    If it's case (b) the prosecution then have to decide whether its worth going on with the prosecution or letting it go to get a bigger fish later.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Not hard to guard against. You just make the Prosecution disclose all the tapes to the defence before trial.

    If they are worried that the tapes making all the tapes available to the defence because it might harm other on-going investigations they'd have to take it to the Judge who could make a ruling, saying that the bits of the tape the prosecution want to keep secret a)not relevant to the defence's case or b) important enough that the defence has a right to them.

    If it's case (b) the prosecution then have to decide whether its worth going on with the prosecution or letting it go to get a bigger fish later.

    you either use a whole tape, or none at all, context is the key in many cases and you would bugger a case up if you snipped even the smallest bits out
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MrG wrote:
    you either use a whole tape, or none at all, context is the key in many cases and you would bugger a case up if you snipped even the smallest bits out


    if youve ever seen yes minister, a comparison would be freak weather might 'ruin' other tapes that could clear him.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    lukesh wrote:
    we, the innocent must be protected!

    I entirely agree, which is why laws like this should never be allowed.

    They do nothing to protect the innocent, indeed they actually put the innocent at risk because they give too much power to one man.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ow the hell do you get the prosecution to release all the tapes ...how do you know how many they have?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how the hell do you get the prosecution to release all the tapes ...how do you know how many they have?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how the hell do you get the prosecution to release all the tapes ...how do you know how many they have?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    God knows what the future has instore for usm god knows what the internet does but i'm a real human and thats all that matters so all you who take this seriousy, go suck ma dick
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