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the girl not going to school cause she breaks uniform
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/4109697.stm
what do you think of the appeal - i think its stupid
theres a limit to how freely beliefs can practised within a school environment, and her basic practices which she has to do as a muslim are allowed such as head scarves etc, its cause she believes she has to wear the entire hijab over the whole body, which isnt actually something that muslims have to do but is more a cultural practice
if this appeal wins, i want someone to claim they have to be naked to go to school as part of their beliefs :rolleyes:
what do you think of the appeal - i think its stupid
theres a limit to how freely beliefs can practised within a school environment, and her basic practices which she has to do as a muslim are allowed such as head scarves etc, its cause she believes she has to wear the entire hijab over the whole body, which isnt actually something that muslims have to do but is more a cultural practice
if this appeal wins, i want someone to claim they have to be naked to go to school as part of their beliefs :rolleyes:
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As for Booth, she should be drowned in your vat of acid.
ah the proverbial vat of acid still not as well known as ur stock of ebola
Out of interest how is this girl funding this? Cherie Booth can’t be cheap.
What I object to is any lawyer arguing that people should feel free to practice and celebrate their own religion whilst sending out Christmas cards using the expression "seasons Greeting" to avoid offending anyone.
The school have been more than reasonable, and a uniform exists for a reason. If this child doesn't like the uniform then the school are quite right in inviting her to find a school that DOES meet her needs.
Of course, this greedy cow is diverting that school's funding away from the classroom and into the lawyers bank accounts. I hope she's proud of herself. They should screw her into the ground with the costs.
A girl from England should go to her country and see if she's allowed to wear a typical English uniform - short sleeved shirt and knee high skirt, I wonder what she'd make of that.
Indeed, she now lives in a country where religious tolerance only goes so far...
Personally I can see both aspects here and will happily criticise them both. The parents of the girl for not selecting a school which would allow this outfit. The school for wasting time and money over something which isn't that important. Uniform is one thing, defining levels of "acceptability" for religious beliefs is another.
That's very unfair and you know it.
Her religion isn't being treated intolerantly at all.
If people are allowed to ignore the uniform, then what's the point in having one at all?
If this selfish bint doesn't like the school's policy she should change schools. Simple as.
and the girl obviously scared by this great attention does not want to outrage her father or mother, and will go along with it all, plus she doesnt want to back down and appear stupid, perhaps the father is a very traditionalist??
anyways thats the paranoid mans point of view, but it fits which is scary
i almost go thrown out of my last school over uniform. i wore non regulation boots because an old injery(sp) was playing up: broken ankles and severed tendons. the only boots i had at the time that gave me the right kind of support and that i could wear with tubigrip things on my ankles, were funky patterned DM's. And i wore trousers because i said it was too cold to wear skirts, and i did't feel at all comfortable wearing skirts. i also said if people were allowed to wear a hand of fatima, or a saint or a cross round their neck why couldn't i wear a pentacle?
and they decided that they were going to throw me out of school for the questions i asked and said i was far too disruptive. never go to international schools.
but this girl is going too far. one symbol is one thing. full religous dress is another.
I wouldnt have put it quite that way, but yes I agree with what you are saying.
I'd say it was fair. I also wouldn't be surprised to see the court rule in her favour.
As a devout worshipper she chose to wear the uniform which reflected this. By saying that she cannot the school is showing intolerance. That their rules are more important.
[/quote]
If people are allowed to ignore the uniform, then what's the point in having one at all?
If this selfish bint doesn't like the school's policy she should change schools. Simple as. [/QUOTE]
There is a difference between blatantly ignoring the uniform and wearing religious robes. The girl in question wore something which conformed to school colours, but reflected her beliefs - I'd say that was a good compromise.
The depth ath someone believes is important to that person. Like I said, the parents have a responsibility here and should have agreed this with the school, but the school should also remember that it's job here is to educate children. Rules should not be set in stone and should be flexible enough to ensure that the education comes first.
My Daughters school has STRICT dress code. She MUST wear grey trousers, black are not allowed and she will be sent home if she breaks the rule. So should I be able to fight so she can wear black or should I leave her like all the other children or make her different ?
I know what I will do thank you.
Shoudl your daughter be wearing black for religious reasons? If not, then the example is not relevant.
If your school will not allow religious dress codes, then I would have a problem with that.
Where im coming from is that our school has a strict school uniform, like the girls school does.
If I had strict religious beleifs then I go to a school which accomodates that, i dont go to a school and try to make them change just because of me.
If life was that simple eh?
I agree that schools should have a uniform policy, but it should be flexible enough to accomodate religious sentiments. Example being that colour should be relevant.
I have already, and continue to, condemn the parents for not chosing the school better. However, that is on the assumption that another school would accomodate, was local enough and was of the right standards.
Schools are there to educate children, not to make them conform to an abitary dress code.
Anyone with any sense will realise that a certain degree of uniformity (even if that means a generally lax dress code within the societal norms of the nation or local community in which it operates) helps to prevent the otherwise unruly nature of youngsters from escalating into constant situations of unrest, distraction, or outright verbal or physical abuse. These are challenges with which educators need not have to contend on a daily basis. They rob the bulk of students from the already strained attentions of their instructors all to satisfy the whims of a select few.
This whole issue is actually not one of religious affinity but of cultural preference as other forms of covering are no less in keeping (in this instance) with Quoranic teaching. Such blustering is every bit as reminiscent as disingenuous claims eminating from the fundie heartland of America where the papers are full of fraudulent lawsuits stemming from spun claims that this or that school or school district has "banned" the teaching of the Declaration of Independence because of references to God, or that prayer has been forbidden. When someone finally bothers to investigate, it has always turned out that the plaintiff(s) were actually seeking to interject fundamentalist propaganda into the curriculum in total contravention of the established standards understood from the moment they took the teaching job.
Our Western societies were established upon secularism with tolerance for religion in ones own private life, not within the framework of state funded and state run institutions. Diversity, I remind you, also demands the respect for the many others present who do not share or perchance vehemently oppose such manifestations of overt religiosity in places of work or instruction.
If this girl wants to wear a Burka, she can do so freely outside the school environment on her own time. So long as she must coexist with other students without making herself a daily distraction, I agree that the school is right in setting the limitations as it has.
it all comes down to whats an acceptable level of religious belief, since the school does cater for muslimin general and their uniform represents that which a muslim may be expected to wear
however this girl believes in a far stricter form of the religion, where covering head isnt enough, so if she wants to practice it, go to an islamic school, like orthodox jews go to jewish schools, and how strict catholics go catholic schools
the school has given enough variation on its uniform without it being that flexible it isnt a uniform anymore
the girls just a selfish attention seeking cow really
i wouldnt be suprised if judge rules in her favour
Fair point. I would argue therefore if by not being tolerant, the school runs the risk of undermining what the pranets may/may not be teaching?
Absolutely, and as a school govenor I support a policy which requires pupils to adhere to a uniformity in their dress code. However, as I have said, that code should be flxible enough to cater for religious differences. Like it or not there are difference and you cannot apply a single standard. It is this approach which leads to real accusations of institutional racism. It's not intended, it's purely an accident of policy because people are ignorant to the implications. But applying a fixed standard means that you cannot cater for the inherent differences which exist in the general public.
This also applies to people on lowe incomes for whom a uniform policy can mean great expense.
And yet the school seems to want to spend time on the issue by forcing it in the first place.
Which is what I mean when I said that tolerance only reaches so far. You can practice your religion, but not in school?
Sorry but religion isn't something to switch on and off, it a 24/7 commitment.
Who defines "acceptable"?
Assuming that there is one locally of course.
But what you have said just underlines my argument. She doesn't believe in the "general" approach to her religion. He religious beliefs go deeper than that. The school policy currently prevents her from following those beliefs.
Depends on how flexible you want to be. there are different uniforms for girls and boys in 99% of schools. Why?
Because people are different. A uniform policy should reflect that, children shouldn't be required to wear exactly the same things but the policy should reflect a colour or should have different expectation covering each religion. It's not that difficult to achieve, there are only a limited number of religions to work through.
I don't doubt that for a minute, but she has a point.
I would be interested to know what she did during PE...
on unifroms, serperately, schoosl should have uniforms, but non complicated ones, i had a school jumper, and had black shoes, and grey/black trousers
worked well and only cost like £40 a year
and the school does cater for her religion and its requirements for those who want to practice it orthodox, its just this girl wants to be a stricter cultural muslim with a burka which is ASKED of in the religion if you want to, but only the headscarf is required, but the burka isnt required so its COMPLETLY different - its a "whose the best muslim competition" (not to take the piss :rolleyes: )
do you seriously think EVERY religious belief should be catered for, what about those who dont believe in a god or have their own beliefs, why should i have to follow uniform, my political beliefs say i shouldnt conform for example
Too many schools are now using a single supplier, with increased costs. BTW you parents may believe that you uniform costs more than that, once they had taken into consideration footwear and sports equipment
I understand the concern about "best muslim", but there is no indication that such an issue existed.
Is it really that difficult for a policy to have a burka included?
If you don't believe in conformity, what are you doing at school?
If you don't believe in god, then uniform is not an issue.
If you do, and can show that dress is relevant, then the school should be flexible. IMHO.
disagree strongly there tbh. children learn from what we as adults teach them. Children need to be taught that rules are rules, they need to be taugh about respect, learn how to socialise etc etc......so school aint just about an education its a mixture of lots of things.
well you cant make lots of exceptions, and many people would see a whole body robe as too much variation from the standard uniform, even if it is the same colour, it is completly unlike the uniform, and muslims needs are catered for, a burka is an optional extra (FACT) and isnt necessary to wear so shouldnt be catered for
btw in pe most girls at my school wore tracksuit bottoms
and im not debating school uniform, thats seperate and my pe kit was just a plain white tshirt, black socks, black football shorts and plain running trainers so weren that expensive, so cost aobut £15 plus trainer costs where most people just wore their normal trainers