young americans ...

Former Member · October 2004

i said to a young american who used to frequent this place ...pjpoet or something ...over a year back that he might as well put his carear dreams on hold as he would soon be getting conscripted into the forces to fight this war which bush reckons will be fought on many fronts for a generation.
we know who will be in the whitehouse after these so called elections ...anyone like to bet me fifty quid ...that conscription will return to america before next summer is out?
america is going to need a lot of cannon fodder ...
so ...put your dreams on hold kids ...your in the army now.

Former Member · October 2004

Re: young americans ...

Originally posted by morrocan roll
...anyone like to bet me fifty quid ...that conscription will return to america before next summer is out?

I will take that bet.

And I am serious.

Former Member · October 2004

Re: Re: young americans ...

Originally posted by Globe
I will take that bet.

And I am serious.

your on mate ...lets say the deadline for the end of summer is ...end of september?

Former Member · October 2004

Originally posted by J
Maybe he will come to realise this and concentrate on rural affairs as opposed to his foreign policy...

what like farming?

Former Member · October 2004

Re: Re: Re: young americans ...

Originally posted by morrocan roll
your on mate ...lets say the deadline for the end of summer is ...end of september?

"End of summer" is taken to be Labor Day weekend, in the US... Labor Day being the first Monday of September. However... to give you the advantage, I will stipulate to 30 September 2005.

And no welshing. :rolleyes:

However... because of the distance and currency exchange, I might be suggesting that you pay off - WHEN YOU LOSE - in the form of payment of Chivas Royale Salute to the person of MoK.

I am relatively certain that he would accept payment, in my stead.

Former Member · October 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: young americans ...

Originally posted by Globe
"End of summer" is taken to be Labor Day weekend, in the US... Labor Day being the first Monday of September. However... to give you the advantage, I will stipulate to 30 September 2005.

And no welshing. :rolleyes:

However... because of the distance and currency exchange, I might be suggesting that you pay off - WHEN YOU LOSE - in the form of payment of Chivas Royale Salute to the person of MoK. I am relatively certain that he would accept payment, in my stead.

your a gentleman!
i will hold to my side of the wager.
if i loose ...you show me a reciept to prove you paid into a military charity of your choosing.

Former Member · October 2004

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: young americans ...

Originally posted by morrocan roll
show me a reciept to prove you paid into a military charity of your choosing.

Oi. No.

Make the bugger send me a bottle of Chivas Royale Salute too.

Have to say that it will be very much appreciated, as was the Chivas Regal (12 yr old) which I am slowly working my way through...

Former Member · October 2004

So wait a minute.

Mr Roll thinks that America WILL have conscription.
Globe thinks they WON'T.

I think they will, when the American kiddies realise that their army just isn't really very good and that they're all being shot to peaces by people who have had less formal training in warfare than a nurse they won't want to volunteer anymore.:rolleyes:

Former Member · October 2004

One of my friend's son has been told that he is to go to Iraq in April...and she is mightly upset about the full fucking debacle as is he.

<please don't tell me that these soldiers signed up for a war for oil. Please don't!>

Former Member · October 2004

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
One of my friend's son has been told that he is to go to Iraq in April...and she is mightly upset about the full fucking debacle as is he.

<please don't tell me that these soldiers signed up for a war for oil. Please don't!>

Why did he join the army?

Former Member · October 2004

Originally posted by Kentish
Why did he join the army?

To get a job

Former Member · October 2004

what if they come up with some system that cunningly avoids the word or model of conscription, but somehow manages to come up with a new form of enforced service?

Traditional values in a modern context type rubbish

(does the House make allowances for political rangling?

)

Former Member · October 2004

Uhm... pardon the stupidity, what's a conscription?

Former Member · November 2004

Where every male of a certain age HAS to join the armed forces. Typically from the age of 18-20.

Armies with conscription typically fare a LOT worse when pitted against an army of volunteers.
Volunteers normally recieve better training, better equipment and better prospects after their career, and most importantly a volunteer is fighting because he wants to, and not because he has been forced to.

Good examples of this are where very small contingents of British troops have been sent to places like Sierra Leone or East Timor, where they are vastly outnumbered and outgunned but still manage to kick ass with virtually no casualties.

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
To get a job

Joining the army isn't the same as getting a job. When you sign up you must accept the possibility that you will be sent somewhere horrible and be asked to kill or be killed for your country. If he didn't want to go to a warzone, he shouldn't have joined the army.

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by Kentish
Joining the army isn't the same as getting a job. When you sign up you must accept the possibility that you will be sent somewhere horrible and be asked to kill or be killed for your country. If he didn't want to go to a warzone, he shouldn't have joined the army.

It's a form of economic conscription. You see there are a lack of training opportunities/jobs in this area so the Army recruitment drive is intensified in areas of economic deprivation. So for him and many of his buddies they have two choices...either languish on the dole or join the armed forces to get a trade.

Oh and I'll tell you one thing Kentish, all this bullshit about kill or be killed for your country does not ring true for these young lads (I know them) they would spit on the queen and all she represents with the blink of an eye, there's not an ounce of 'patriotism' within them...whatever 'patriotism' is supposed to convey in the first place I don't know!

In anycase, how is invading a country that was not a threat to this country considered to be doing your duty?

Former Member · November 2004

Its the idea that America will be safer, more powerful and more prosperous in a world where most countires are in democracies. To do this they need regime changes through out the world. To do regime change htey need soldiers.

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
In anycase, how is invading a country that was not a threat to this country considered to be doing your duty?

you sign you obey! simple.
i have mates and sons of mates in the forces and some of the sons are now in iraq. none of them believe in what they are doing but ...you sign up ...your trained ...you obey.
if the forces argued with government about which battles they would fight and which they wouldn't ...be pointless having any forces.
but ...of course people are going to be pissed off their soldier son is being marched off to madness.

Former Member · November 2004

I think the likelihood of conscription being brought back in America is extremely low. I just can't see it happening.

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by minimi38
Its the idea that America will be safer, more powerful and more prosperous in a world where most countires are in democracies. To do this they need regime changes through out the world. To do regime change htey need soldiers.

Yeah I tend to agree. It's also about access to cheap oil and strategic positioning for the next step in the neocons Project for a New American Century. Just look at their geographical positioning just now. If they wern't being bogged down in Iraq, god knows where they would have invaded next.

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by Disillusioned
I think the likelihood of conscription being brought back in America is extremely low. I just can't see it happening.

betcha!
bush has declared total war for at least a generation. they rate those bodies get bagged they are going to be needing a lot of bags.

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by morrocan roll
you sign you obey! simple.
i have mates and sons of mates in the forces and some of the sons are now in iraq. none of them believe in what they are doing but ...you sign up ...your trained ...you obey.
if the forces argued with government about which battles they would fight and which they wouldn't ...be pointless having any forces.
but ...of course people are going to be pissed off their soldier son is being marched off to madness.

Yeah but the point here is that the country was took into war on false premises. They lied through their back teeth to us even though the majority of the British public was/is against this war, they still launched an invasion anyway.

As for disobeying orders, has anyone else got any further news on the 19 American soldiers who refused to go on a mission because they said that it was suicidal from day one. Last I heard they were still in custody,

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by morrocan roll
betcha!
bush has declared total war for at least a generation. they rate those bodies get bagged they are going to be needing a lot of bags.

I think that if Bush wins then there's deffo gonna be some sort of conscription being brought in. They have no choice really.

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by eternalsunshine
I think that if Bush wins then there's deffo gonna be some sort of conscription being brought in. They have no choice really.

thats what i'm getting at mate but few seem to see it.

Former Member · November 2004

Originally posted by morrocan roll
thats what i'm getting at mate but few seem to see it.

They're well overstretched as it is. Hell they're having rotational problems as it is and the reality on the ground in Iraq most certainly does seem to be getting worse as time goes by. Looks as if Uncle Sam is in a no-win situation on this one.

young americans ...

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