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Untrue, we're very accommodating to all religions in this country,
this girl is just trying to be awkward
yes she may be being awkward but so are those who stick to rules unbendingly for no clear reason........
But if they change the rules for her, won't other children in the school see it an unfair, and maybe refuse to wear uniforms, because why should they, if she doesn't have to?
However, this should also include the rights of the children to wear the head dresses if they need too, be they Jewish/Muslim/whatever.
But this does need to be tied to common sense, obviously if a kid is coming into exams in a full on yasmack (sp?) the examiner wouldnt know who it was.
But then putting common sense in law is a total bitch.
What do you think are the pros and cons of them wearing their dress?
I think its disgusting that she should be denied an education, even the school thought she would do well and she hoped to become a doctor.
The teachers should be ashamed, I am.
It was a health and safety rish, as the dress was so long.
I think it does matter, it does not encourage children to feel equal, if this is allowed surely other religions can wear what they like, so pagans can wear what they like?
I think it is unfair on other children, also an islamic teacher stated that it is not an islamic 'rule' to wear these clothes. Therefore this girl is kicking up about nothing, its her preference.
What suprises me is that my mate went to India and was in trouble for wearing a low cut top as it is against their religion, here we pay legal fees to support these people who are clearly unwilling to fit with our way of life. "When in Rome do as the Romans"
Schools uniforms are there to make everyone equal, and to cause less division, i had a friend who could not afford to buy clothes at home, with the school uniform policy the school could provide the uniform, this caused less socioeconomic problems for my mate as she looked like evryone else (uniform) she looked smart and was representing her school, mufti days would cause so much trouble as she had little to wear, and felt self conscious. I felt like this at sixth form when i struggled to afford brand names, finding something smart and suitable everyday was almost impossible!
FACT children are cruel, children are egocentric
FACT it is not always the fault of the parents/guardians, a lot of this fashion and 'bullying' is often made worse by teen mags, it does not help confidence.
I agree children should be brought up to respect others, to respect economic status.
The fact of the matter is that the reason by the school has been given due to the length of the dress the child is a health and safety risk. If someone should trip over ot she should trip over the bottom then the school could be sued. In todays paper this was stated the LEA are supporting the school, nd i cannot say fairer than that, she was aware of teh rules as are the other 80% of muslims in the school who insist it is not essential and is not a required item by a muslim!
Oh dear, oh dear, Oh dear
Long dresses a health and safety risk, sounds ridiculous to me.....
'these people' 'our way of life' ?:no:
I personally don't think such tighlty enforced school uniform rules are a very good idea, its just pettiness. Guess they are not part of my 'way of life'. Weird huh, I must be a Muslim! :eek:
Jacq - when we say people pick on others for not wearing fashionable clothes we don't mean labels like Dior or Chanel. A kid wearing an old hand-me-down sweater is bound to attract some attention in a modern secondary school - it is how naughty little kids are.
This girl was offered an option that would enable her to adhere to her strict religious views, so why didn't she choose that? Also, she knew there was a uniform policy when she went to the school. Nobody joins an organisation without agreeing to the rules. She could have gone elsewhere to be taught - somewhere without a uniform.
Another argument for uniforms is to stop the "labelling" kind of behaviour.
The teachers only follow the rules, they dont make them. It would be the Governors/Headteacher etc who make the rules.
People cannot please themselves when it comes to rules, break the rule and face the consequences.......End of in my opinion.
If we pride ourselves by being an open and democratic society, then we must also choose to show that. That means letting people of another religion and culture to live by their traditions and customs, even if we wouldn't allow to do the same in their country. Remember, that's why the west is so great.
Dos:
There is a serious problem with your kids, if they can't not wear uniform without creating waves of bullying.
right, slightly different but here goes anyhow.
As ive said before my Daughter goes to cathlic school, me and her Father are both C of E.
I sent her to that school because of the good education they get there. Now if I am not gonna allow her to go to church like all the rest of the school then im going to be in deep shit. The rule is they must pray on a morning and go to church (however many times a week). Thats the rule of that school and i must adhere to the rule and allow my Daughter to go to church etc.........NO exceptions at all.
As far as I understood the girl goes to an ordinary school.
None of the other Muslim students had any problems with the uniform, WHY did she have to be different? If she prides in wearing the all-in-one combo then there are plenty of muslim schools and other state schools that don't have a problem with it.
It's like me seeing a 2 roads. One with a 40 limit, one with a 20 limit, choosing to go down the road that says 20 and CHOOSING to do 40 anyway.
If the girl didn't have any other school she could goto then I'd agree with her, but as it stands she decided to make herself stand out.
I don't give a flying fuck either way to be honest.
[source: The Times]
Another thing she is an orphan living with a brother of 19, and a sister of 17, have the social services been contacted? Surely a 15 year old should be in care and TOLD to go to school, any other parent keeping a child out of school would be in serious trouble?
As reported in the Daily Mail yesterday 27/05/2004 the dress was seen as a health and safety risk, due to the length. The L.E.A were supporting the school on the matter, they cannot allow clothes touching the floor. (Which is why in my school bootleg trousers were banned, as the dragged on the floor, tripping people up, causing sprained ankles.
However that is irrelevant the point is she was aware of the schools dress code, and knew of another local school who allowed it, despite her religious feelings and thoughts increasing. If she had increased in religious knowledge she would understand that the jilbab is not a nessesary part of her religion, but the covering of all but face and hands is, which the school uniform does well!
We have already established that the children in Britain are stupid and silly and that they have serious problems, but they all have feelings they all can see that one this is fair and is not fair, allow one person to break the rules you have a chance of rebellion from all of them, will the 20% of non-muslim children be pleased that they wear a uniform they may hate themselves but the rest waer what they like?
That is not fair, and i think the school was right in telling the girl to change, its not fair and is wrong. This girl is causing an argument knowing she can win because our government is unfair. She has excluded herself by wanting to wear the dress.
:yes: not to mention the name of the school. The is little point in caring really as its just a sign of the times!
Why do you care so much about things close to your heart?
I don't personally care either way, she can wear whatever the hell she wants. I'm pointing out that it's all well and good blasting the school for this, when it's her own fault for ignoring the rules.
What can be questioned is whether the rule is right though.
Simply blindly folllowing rules without question is not good.
would you make the same statement about US army discipline in Abu Ghraib if it is found they were ordered to torture the inmates by superiors.....?
All this is to miss the point.
Muslim dress is allowed as part of that school's uniform, but the jilbab is not. As the school (quite rightly) points out, they do not want school to become a parade ground for who is the "best" Muslim- if the school lets this girl wear the extreme clothing, then it sets a precedent that those girls who don't wear the extreme clothing will be labelled ass "bad" Muslims by those who do wear the jilbab.
This girl is causing a stink because she can. The school are right; if all Muslim clothing was banned, then they would not be right. This girl has the opportunity to cover herself up as per her religion, not being allowed to wear something like the jilbab does not damage her "human rights". If she feels that strongly about it there are plenty of Muslim religious schools that she could attend.
In the case of the school, the staff and governors have decided that a condition of receiving their service (education) shall be conformity with a dress code. Their dress code has been designed with certain religious provisions in mind, but they are unwilling to permit futher modification of the dress code on the grounds of personal belief.
In the thread on freedom of association started by the sole liber, the example is of a shopkeeper who restricts access to his shop on the basis of skin colour.
At one time or another in each thread, posters have remarked that there is no obligation for the "consumer" to use the particular school or shop in question; someone can always choose to go to a school more suited to their religious beliefs. In the "freedom of association" thread, Toadborg opined that if the school or shop is the only one (in the area) then the situation is different?
Is it? Does a monopolist really have different moral obligations to one provider among many? If so, at what point do the rights of the "oppressed consumer" begin to outweigh the right of the school / shop to decide with whom it will conduct business?
what Kermit said (only he put it much better than I could)
How can you, me or anybody say that her religious needs are being met. She clearly doesn't think so. Yes she was happy until after deeper reading into Islam, she decided that the uniform wasn't enough.
Islam like Judaism or Christianity has varying schools of thought and there is no strict norms.