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What Atkinson said was racist, because of the connotations of the word. That is undoubtedly fact, and isn't being disputed.
However I still take issue with Atkinson being racist. When people are angry they use insults designed to mark out differences between themselves and the insultee- in this case it was Desailly's colour. If Desailly was white and fat, Atkinson would have called him a "fat bastard"; if Desailly was white and ginger, another insult would have been used.
People need to separate meaning and intent- n*gger is a word that nobody should use, but at the end of the day it is just a word. An insult. An insult like any other- a strong insult, yes, but only an insult. It is the context which makes it racist or not; a person can use racist words and not be racist, and a person can use non-racist words and be the biggest racist bigot going.
He resigned, he was right to resign because words like that should not be used. But I find it interesting to see which people are slagging him off as racist and which people are not; it appears to be that those who are honest are defending him, and those who would go to the opening of an envelope, such as Ian Wright, are criticising him. Just an observation.
But - you don't use racist insults if you are aware of the issues. no one I know would dream of using an insult like that (except in jest, possibly).
As I said - language used is a good indicator of internal thought processes.
Then there is people like me (and i'm not ashamed to say), I have had a lot of runnings with the asians that live in my area, they all walk around with there arms swinging thinking they are everything, they start fights ALL the time on whites on there own when they are in big gangs. An asian was driving towards me on the wrong side of the road and I shouted for him to move over, he didn't just move over and carry on, he got out and put my car back window through with a metal bar. So I have got something against the asians in my area which from all the things i've seen happen is making me a bit racist towards them. I say racist words from time to time but I aint gonna strap a bomb to my back and drive into the mosque not far from my house. I aint gonna shout racist remarks for no reason. But if I was walking through my town and I got started on (again) then yes the racist abuse would start.
I'm probably making myself look like a racist nobhead but the point i'm trying to make is I don't class myself as a racist but at times I can be because of things that of happened to me etc.. or in certain situations. I know this was said earlier but my best girl mate is black, a really good lad mate of mine is Asian, I never say racist remarks to them or even think of them.
I think Rons comments were out of order, but I don't think he is a "out and out racist".
A little bit, yes. Understandable maybe, as an immedate reaction to bad experiences, but not a very logical or clever position.
I've only ever been mugged and beaten up by black people, I could easily get resentful, but I'm clever enough to know that its only a minority who are wankers - same as in any group.
Maybe get to know some asian people and your opinions might change.
No - I kind of agreed with the answer...
Anyway - this is an interesting view from a black colleague...
I am Black and proud and hate the N word, however used. It makes no difference to me whether it is used by NWA, spelt niggaz (given my loathing of 'gangsta rap'), or Erykah Badu on the sleeve notes of her debut album (a fond message to her then partner: 'you my nigga forever'), despite my deep love for the woman and her music, or by the aforementioned rock group, despite my complete indifference to the genre.
Having said this, there IS a difference between Black people and others using it. The best analogy I can think of is recreational drug use; if I do it to myself, I may be stupid or self-destructive, but it is my choice and between myself and those with a valid interest (family, friends, the law...). If someone does it to me, it is entirely another matter.
As for context, while I can understand the point, it simply is not strong enough for terms such as chink, spic, wog, wop, etc. These words are calculatedly offensive (the idea that the N word originally meant low life is absurd; it was coined as an insulting play on the word Negro). Context does make a difference for some language; I hate being called ethnic, but tolerate it at work. Anyone who called me that outside of work would quickly feel the sharp edge of my tongue! I am less inclined to tolerate (second generation) immigrant and non-white, but they are still less offensive.
Doubtless, many will regard this as political correctness and/or just semantics. I have no problem with that; but I would just point out two things. One, if you have read this, you can no longer use ignorance as an excuse. Two, if you chose not to respect people by acknowledging and addressing them as they would choose, be prepared to live with the consequences.
Are you black?
Is that relevant?
She speaks english, it's an english word. Why can't she "reclaim" it to make it a palatable word?
Of course its relevant. :rolleyes:
It is a term usually used by racists. You don't have to be black to want to change that...
It's brutally simple really...
Ah, but then it becomes a very interesting discussion on semantics.
If EVERY person changed the meaning of the word from derogatory to endearment, then the meaning of the word would change. Look at how the meaning of the word "gay" has evolved.
In practise if I called a black stranger a n. then that would be greatly insulting, but if I called a mate one then it may not be. It would depend on the friend, of course, but colour isn't relevant, it is the relationship to the person you are calling a n. that is.
But if everyone started using it as a term of affection, it would become one; it doesn't matter what colour you are.
Black people can use it however, on the simple premise that they're obviously not being racist towars people of their own race.
However - if you refer to someone on tv as a fucking lazy N****r then it plainly is insulting and racist. There we go!
If a black person finds the word degrading no amout of white people 're-claiming' the word will stop it being so, in fact no amount of Black people 'reclaiming' it will either!
No of course not. But langauge changes meaning depending on context. Maybe you could use it between you and your black mates who know where you're coming from. But use it it any other context and you might well get a smack in the face.
:rolleyes: No you can't. Not unless its in a specific context where its obvious that you are doing that. Otherwise people will probably think you're racist.
Exactly. Its about context and intent.
Not really gonna happen is it? Not all black people like the use of the word. Listen to Public Enemy sometime.
I can't be arsed to explain any more.
You either get it or you don't.
You don't.
Yes - Shock Horror, many black people do get very offended by the use of the word N****r...EVEN when their other black friends use it!!!!!
DO you have any black friends? How do you think they would take it if you suddenly said 'Hello N****r'?
Of course it would be rediculous to use that kind of greeting. What would make you think it was OK...Would you wait a few months and then just chuck the word in 'Casually' or would you perhaps ask them sometime if it would be ok if from now on you called them N****r?
Or would you perhaps wait for them to start using the word (Which of course they would cos, like, rappers do so that means all black people must do right?)!
Some people still use the phrases 'he worked like a N****r' and 'I was sweating like a n****r'...do you know where these phrases come from?
You have no understanding of the issue, a large part of this is because you are white.
You're white (and so am I) so we don't know what its like to be a racial minority in this country. How can we? We don't know what its like to experience low level racism all the time.
An example - a black friend of mine walks into a pub in Brixton (yes, Brixton, where you don't expect this sort of thing), waves at us and walks over. One of the barmaids rushes overm grabs him and asks us if he's bothering us. No, he's our mate you idiot, we reply. But she assumed, just because he's a big black bloke, wearing FUBU and Avirex etc, that he was causing trouble.
I have no idea what thats like to experience, to be judged on the colour of your skin in your local pub. I don't think you do either.