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Do you go to mass?

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shogun
    Where did i say you had to have faith or religion to help people or even hint at it?

    Most of the posts from the religous people here seem to suggest it. At least, thats how it reads to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well im saying it clearly now.

    Anyone can go to a country and help people.
    My god, where did you ever get the idea that the person had to have faith and religion to do it?

    :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    And how do you know? Were you there?

    If the Bible is a historical account of the life of Christ it's bound to be biased in some fashion. The middle east in those times was strongly male dominated. Men wrote the Bible.
    That's a bit sexist isn't it? Why not? Jesus wasn't a misoginist.

    Who cares if children die? You're not a child are you?
    Why care if women are circumsized in Africa, I don't live in Africa do I?
    :rolleyes:
    So you assume that my interests lie entirely within polytheism and the earth? I've interviewed female priests and they're very inspirational people. All I want is equality, why should men be allowed to consecrate wine and baptise and wed people and not a female?
    Of course I care about what people do, I don't discriminate by race, gender, sexuality or skin colour, there's little point to it. It would be wonderful to see more women significant in contemporary religious institutions.

    according to the gospels there were 12 disciples all male,
    i know Jesus wasn't misogonist but if you think aobut it, it wasn't until the 60's-70's of THIS century that women were given equal rights, their role in society before that was always to serve man and i don't care what you say about that bacause its the truth. Sorry if my comment came across as ambiguous because it wasn't, what i meant is, if you're not a catholic and you don't go to Catholic Mass, why would you care if there are no women priests, or are you trying to attack the churchs view on women which has nothing to do about this post, you can also argue why men aren't allowed to marry as priests etc but thats Church Doctrine, face the facts and move on.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by turlough
    according to the gospels there were 12 disciples all male,
    i know Jesus wasn't misogonist but if you think aobut it, it wasn't until the 60's-70's of THIS century that women were given equal rights, their role in society before that was always to serve man and i don't care what you say about that bacause its the truth.

    In 1545 women were first granted a soul... what's your point? The point I made was that there was no evidence to say that Jesus never had any female disciples and that the books were written by men in a patriarchal society. So if there were females following Jesus so closely they wouldn't have been accounted for.

    Sorry if my comment came across as ambiguous because it wasn't, what i meant is, if you're not a catholic and you don't go to Catholic Mass, why would you care if there are no women priests,

    So you justify inequality? Do you believe that female circumcision is just or that women are unclean and shouldn't enter religious buildings whilst their ovulating? What is Christianity all about anyway? Because last time I looked I thought it said in Corinthians that all were equal in the eyes of God.

    or are you trying to attack the churchs view on women which has nothing to do about this post, you can also argue why men aren't allowed to marry as priests etc but thats Church Doctrine, face the facts and move on.

    Not attacking dear, challenging, there's a difference. Men have the choice to go and be a priest and not get married, but women do not have that choice at all in some churches. And for the record, I believe women should be allowed in to all parts of the army too. This is the 21st centuary, not the 1st.
    If women wanted to become more involved in church life then why don't they start trying to do something about it?

    But women are involved in the church, when I interviewed female priests for my project they described a 'stained glass ceiling' that doesn't allow them to get any higher. But yeah, women are working on it.

    Besides, the pope decreed (as I have said) that the ordination of women will not even be discussed.

    And yeah, there are Catholic feminists.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by MoonRat
    In 1545 women were first granted a soul... what's your point? The point I made was that there was no evidence to say that Jesus never had any female disciples and that the books were written by men in a patriarchal society. So if there were females following Jesus so closely they wouldn't have been accounted for.




    So you justify inequality? Do you believe that female circumcision is just or that women are unclean and shouldn't enter religious buildings whilst their ovulating? What is Christianity all about anyway? Because last time I looked I thought it said in Corinthians that all were equal in the eyes of God.




    Not attacking dear, challenging, there's a difference. Men have the choice to go and be a priest and not get married, but women do not have that choice at all in some churches. And for the record, I believe women should be allowed in to all parts of the army too. This is the 21st centuary, not the 1st.



    But women are involved in the church, when I interviewed female priests for my project they described a 'stained glass ceiling' that doesn't allow them to get any higher. But yeah, women are working on it.

    Besides, the pope decreed (as I have said) that the ordination of women will not even be discussed.

    And yeah, there are Catholic feminists.

    i'm not justifying inequality, i'm just saying thats doctirne and theres nothing we can do, i'm all for women priests and for men priests to get married but until the Pope changes that, thats what we must believe, not all Labour supporters support Blairs ideas but they're expected to vote for him, same with Catholics.
    yes it is the 21st century. what will it be like in the 31st century, we want horses to be priests?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by turlough
    i'm not justifying inequality, i'm just saying thats doctirne and theres nothing we can do, i'm all for women priests and for men priests to get married but until the Pope changes that, thats what we must believe, not all Labour supporters support Blairs ideas but they're expected to vote for him, same with Catholics.

    Well already there are women priests in the Catholic church and openly gay Christians,
    yes it is the 21st century. what will it be like in the 31st century, we want horses to be priests?

    If we survive that long. And women are different to horses, apart from the fact you can ride us ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think you phrased that wrongly but yes its true the way you said it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    About the point about Jesus and women, women actually played a very important role in Jesus's ministry, Mary his mother was a woman who played a very important role, mary magdalene, Lazarus's sisters Martha and Mary all helped Jesus and just because they weren't disciples dosen't mean they weren't important in spreading his message, the disciples may have been closer to Jesus but women were also close to Jesus, women were with him as he died on the cross.

    So i'm all in favour of women priests and think the pope needs to change his view on women becoming priests.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    put your hand up if you think shogun got that information out of his A/S R.E. text book *puts hand up*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know about that stuff without a book.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shogun

    So i'm all in favour of women priests and think the pope needs to change his view on women becoming priests.
    trouble is ...your trying to pick andchoose what you think is right for the modern world with your human understanding.
    if you believe all this stuff then the log book states that women are subservient to men and men to christ and christ to god.
    if you have faith that those words reflect what jesus says and his old man in that log book ...then you shouldn't be chopping and changing them to suit the moods of the times. surely if it's gods word then it applies throughout time?
    it's called faith. the bible says few have it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shogun
    Mary his mother was a woman

    :lol:

    I think that we'd all have been surprised if Mary had been a bloke...

    Miriam maybe...


    @ GWST. I think the women issue is important for me because it is one of the reasons why I will not attend Church. How can I have faith in an organisation which stands for something the complete opposite of what I believe....?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    which church are you referring to? the C of E ordains women, and smaller churches don't differentiate between male and female preachers.


    I haven't seen many women bishops, or archbishops in C of E. But I may be wrong...


    And look at how many people still object to the ordination of women...
    either way, although it might be an interesting tangent, i don't think it belongs in this thread.

    Just because I am feeling awkward and obstuctive at the moment can I just say that the thread was asking if people went to mass..

    My answer was no, because...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by morrocan roll
    trouble is ...your trying to pick andchoose what you think is right for the modern world with your human understanding.
    if you believe all this stuff then the log book states that women are subservient to men and men to christ and christ to god.
    if you have faith that those words reflect what jesus says and his old man in that log book ...then you shouldn't be chopping and changing them to suit the moods of the times. surely if it's gods word then it applies throughout time?
    it's called faith. the bible says few have it.

    Yes, the modern world..to spread the message of God, why shouldn't women be allowed to do it?

    Where does it say in the bible that a woman cannot help in the spread of Jesus's message?
    I think the women issue is important for me because it is one of the reasons why I will not attend Church. How can I have faith in an organisation which stands for something the complete opposite of what I believe....?

    So you don't attend Church because a woman isn't saying the mass or getting more involved?

    You can't have faith in it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by girl with sharp teeth
    will you give over? this thread is nothing to do with women in religion, and admirable as i'm sure your sentiments are, i'm sick to the back teeth of hearing them. start a thread on religion and women if you want to carry it on.

    Well somebody challenged it, I challenged back. Sorry if it caused offense :eek2: It's not just me who was debating on that either.


    I haven't seen many women bishops, or archbishops in C of E. But I may be wrong...

    There areplenty in Wales... eep! *hides from GWST.
    You can't have faith in it.

    Not going to church doesn't mean you don't have faith in God though and last time I checked, I was led to believe that Christianity was about faith in God.


    Anyway, back to the thread. Yeah the church has a sense of community and it's very uplifting to meet other Christians and hear spiritual advice, but I still don't see why some Christians believe that going to church is a necessity. If faith comes from within then why must it be proved?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shogun
    So you don't attend Church because a woman isn't saying the mass or getting more involved?

    You can't have faith in it.

    I don't have faith in the Church. I do have faith in "Christianity". The two are not the same.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shogun
    Yes, the modern world..to spread the message of God, why shouldn't women be allowed to do it?

    Where does it say in the bible that a woman cannot help in the spread of Jesus's message?




    sorry i missunderstood. it doesn't they can't preach
    but it does say they can't do certaint hings that are held back for the head of the household ...the male. such as laying on of hands and healing ...they cannot lead a congregation. therefore ...how can they be a priest? all the examples of priestesses in the bible are bad news not good news.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not going to church doesn't mean you don't have faith in God though and last time I checked, I was led to believe that Christianity was about faith in God.

    Man of kent talked about the church and not having faith in the church, i never said anything about having faith in God there.
    You can't have faith in it.

    There's what I said.

    "it" refers to the Church.
    I don't have faith in the Church. I do have faith in "Christianity". The two are not the same.

    I know they are different, one is about faith in God, the other...well it's up to the individual to decide what it is all about.
    such as laying on of hands and healing ...they cannot lead a congregation. therefore ...how can they be a priest? all the examples of priestesses in the bible are bad news not good news.

    Ok mroll maybe they can't do that but where does it say that in the bible?

    What are the examples of priestesses in the bible?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Shogun


    Ok mroll maybe they can't do that but where does it say that in the bible?

    What are the examples of priestesses in the bible?
    me and big mouth! i'll have a look later and post.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you go to mass?

    im almost sure that there's no examples of women priestesses in the Bible but there's also no examples of high alters with stained glass windows, priests wearing multi coloured gowns, these have all been introduced by Churchs to suit themselves, obviously the male chauvinists (sp?) at the time decided women shouldn't be priests, tough shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    but there's also no examples of high alters with stained glass windows, priests wearing multi coloured gowns

    But isn't this just a way of making mass more like a service, what do you propose there is...no altar..just a priest standing there in dark clothes at a wall or something?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    CBA to go back and find out who said it ( probably Shogun looking at his other posts) but what is wrong with having no faith.

    I live. I die. The end. No one interferes, it is all down to whatever I choose to do and no one guides me.

    What's wrong with believe in that? Or is that, in your opinion, a form of faith?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    there's nothing wrong with having no faith it just seems that religious people seem to prejudge atheists as having no morals etc which of course is a load of bollocks
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by the doc horatio
    CBA to go back and find out who said it ( probably Shogun looking at his other posts) but what is wrong with having no faith.

    I live. I die. The end. No one interferes, it is all down to whatever I choose to do and no one guides me.

    What's wrong with believe in that? Or is that, in your opinion, a form of faith?


    I don't see anything wrong with someone having no faith, it's their choice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Re: Do you go to mass?
    Originally posted by turlough
    im almost sure that there's no examples of women priestesses in the Bible but there's also no examples of high alters with stained glass windows, priests wearing multi coloured gowns, these have all been introduced by Churchs to suit themselves, obviously the male chauvinists (sp?) at the time decided women shouldn't be priests, tough shit.

    Yup and you'll go to hell for sodomy too... ohh and don't go getting drunk or doing drugs, your body is your temple. NEVER bear false witness, respect your parents even if they beat the shit in to you every night... things change, even the Bible has changed from translation to translation. Ohh and don't forget the scriptures found in Egypt (Nag Hammadi). Is Christianity practiced today how it should be? How closely do most of them follow the Bible?

    Always wondered that. is it a guideline? or a rule book?
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