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Let's hear some justification for this: new footage of US soldiers murdering people
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
We still all remember that video a few weeks ago of US soldiers shooting dead a wounded Iraqi as he lay on the ground and then celebrating wildly. At the time some people chose to justify the actions of the "soldiers", or at least to reserve judgement because further background info was not available. Frankly I still can't see how a severely wounded man like the one in the footage could have been a threat to any living thing other than any unfortunate ants that might have crushed by his rolling body...
But anyway, rather than re-opening the argument over that footage, let's see what justification anyone can come up for this one:
Warning: disturbing footage ahead. Click on the link only if you wish to proceed...
http://www.thecia.net/users/stewarte/apachehit.mpg
Is this just a case of not wanting to be bothered to arrest enemy combatants or picking up the wounded? Just better to shoot everyone dead eh? Who wants to touch those dirty Arabs and get blood in your uniform when you can just blow them to pieces and let the local wildlife clean it off...
But anyway, rather than re-opening the argument over that footage, let's see what justification anyone can come up for this one:
Warning: disturbing footage ahead. Click on the link only if you wish to proceed...
http://www.thecia.net/users/stewarte/apachehit.mpg
Is this just a case of not wanting to be bothered to arrest enemy combatants or picking up the wounded? Just better to shoot everyone dead eh? Who wants to touch those dirty Arabs and get blood in your uniform when you can just blow them to pieces and let the local wildlife clean it off...
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
Is it easy to watch over a dial up connection, or will I have to wait hours for it to download?
It's US military-persepective footage of two gunners shooting dead two Iraqis and then blowing up a van that a third Iraqi was hiding behind before finishing him off when he was crawling out after being wounded.
It was pretty grisly stuff, like a computer game almost.
I'm not exactly clued up on my Geneva Convention but is shooting a wounded militiaman illegal in war?
Also notice that it came from 'Ernies House of Whoop-ass'. Hardly the most respected and trustworthy news organisation in the world.
Anyway, those guys could well be suicide bombers or the cars could have proximity detonators.
Why do you think they would call in an Apache a64 helicopter gunship to deal with a few guys unless they thought they were a threat.
The one thing that is clear is that the helicopter was perfectly safe from those men at that point in time.
And even safer from the last man they killed, as he lay on the ground after being showered with high calibre bullets in a truck that exploded and just about managing to crawl out of the wreck.
It is very clear that the soldiers are not concerned in the slightest by any possible threat from the men. Especially from the last one. As he crawls miserably out of the wreck he's spotted by the soldiers; one of them says "he's wounded- get him" and the other duly obliges, acknowledging the kill with a simple "roger". You could be forgiven for thinking they were playing a game of poker, for all the emotion they displayed. Adrenaline certainly didn't seem to be riding high on those people- an excuse that was used to justified the other execution a few weeks ago.
Oh well. Another day, another successful search and destroy operation. Life is grand.
But not impossible, and would you be willing to take that chance with your own life and the life of your buddies?
Countries that pretend to uphold the rules of law are prepared to accept a certain amount of risk instead of killing everyone in their path.
Especially when the risk is practically zero.
If you were an armed cop and you were arresting people, could you justify gunning them all down instead, just in case the extremely remote but not impossible possibility that one of them was carrying a Uzi under his coat and he shot you and your colleagues as you were about to handcuff him?
Would this be France? Germany? Number of troops sent by them - 0
Number of troops sent by US - 150,000.
Tell me, who is taking the risk?
And the US does not kill 'everyone in their path'.
But putting that aside, are you suggesting that because the US army has taken casualties it makes murder and revenge acceptable?
That'd be because France hasn't been involved in illegal wars of occupation under false pretences lately. So why would they need to send troops to Iraq?
I tell you who isn't: The President and government of the United States of America, safely claiming to be the guardians of freedom from behind their desks while sending US soldiers to their deaths in the name of geopolitical control and oil contracts.
If the soldiers must be pissed off at anyone, I'd suggest they send an Apache chopper to deal with the real threat to their lives, currently residing at the White House.
This is something that even the US' own allies, the British, would be able to deny.
Friendly Fire, its a fact of War.
THats bollocks, and you know it. Scraping the barrel a bit aint ya?
This thread is not about the War in general , its legality or whatever. Its about that video, which as i have already said, could easily be mocked up.
Anyone who is willing to die for their objective is a maniac.
It is not murder and revenge, it is War.
For Gods sake, you are in no position to critiscise fighting troops. The closest you have been to a combat situation (probably) was when the riot police closed in around your anachist group demonstration.
And here we go again with the "you haven't seen combat, you weren't there, so you're not in a position to judge". I'm sorry, even in wars there are rules. And if we're not to make judgement by video evidence, then how are we to make judgement? Should we ask the men seen in the footage being literally blown into dozens of small pieces?
You are right about the possibility of the video being mocked up. It is also possible that the soldiers thought the first man was about to produce an RPG out of nowhere and take a shot at them (although that certainly would not apply of the last man, despite the protestations we will no doubt have to hear to the contrary from a certain occasional poster). But most people most or would agree that the video seems to show enough evidence to launch an immediate investigation on those soldiers, and to press charges if the killings are thought to be unlawful. Just as the earlier incident merited a full suspension and investigation of the shooting soldier and his cheering chums.
Instead we get half-baked excuses from apologists, and absolutely no action whatsoever from the US government.
Astonishing how Dubya can go on television and talk about Saddam being an evil man who was responsible for many war crimes while at the same time some of his own soldiers are free to kill people for no apparent reason without fear of reprisal. The man has really redefined the meaning of hypocrisy.
I would think that most servicemen are willing to die or risk death for their objectives.
Yes , but how many people follow them? The Iraqi terroists certainly do not, or Al Quaeda, and they are the enemy.
The US army hardly ever violates the Geneva convention, but it is a war zone, and you cannot police one of those.
Make any judgement you like, but take all the facts into account. You have no idea about the circumstances the video was shot in, (if it even was a real video), you do not know where the incident took place in Iraq (although if I was to hazard a guess Id say the 'Sunni Triangle', an exteremely dangerous and unsafe place for Americans), you do not know what was in the trucks and you do not know if the Iraqis shot first.
bla bla bla, American soldiers are disciplined, believe it or not. They are not just a load of country hicks you know.
I would not want to sentence the US soldiers because of what is seen on on that video. But it is certainly enough to warrant at least a full investigation by the US army- just as the other video clip did. Because what appears to happen there is unjustified murder.
The severely injured/dying man posed no danger. End of.
War isn't civil though, is it?
Different kind of scenario though, isn't it?
History is littered with examples which "justify" why you would want to kill your "enemy".
Now I'm not referring to that video footage because I still haven't been able to watch it (damn these guardians) but I think that talking to veterans for various wars is a useful concept when discussing issues like this.
I have yet to meet one, including my grandfather, who wouldn't say to you that perspectives are what is "acceptable" change when you are in a war zone.
there to lazy to do the work so why not kill them.. less hassle for them.
that video was fucking sick. i dunno how you can sit there and say what they did is right.
Also u named the helicopter wrong
its a AH46D longbow apachie.
also there wouldnt be proxi sensors/bombs on the truck otherwise the iraqis would've set them of when they was moving around. there people from the video look unarmed with no heavy weponry but they still let lose with a 50cal cannon on 3/4men...
I never said it was right.
They had not surrendered, how do you know there werent more of them in the truck with RPGs? How do you know they had not already been shooting at US troops of the chopper itself? You dont, because all you have to go on is a few seconds of grainy infra red footage, which means nothing at all.
I agree, but that does not make it real.
So sue me.
Exactly, they look it, but for all you know just out of range there could be humdreds of them with RPGs.
A bit like saying that for all we know the last man, the one who was showered with bullets and then blasted by the truck's explosion and who was crawling half dead on the ground before he was blown to pieces by a fucking 30mm cannon, could have been attempting to crawl to one of this:
that happened to be connected to Saddam's secret arsenal of nuclear weapons, and thus vaporising Baghdad and everyone in it.
And so, by finishing the 'job' on him the brave American soldiers saved 4 million people from horrible death.
And the above story my friend is just about as plausible as the story that those men (especially the last one) posed any danger to the chopper and that the US soldiers were forced to shoot at them to eliminate the 'threat' they posed.
American soldiers do not shoot people without a reason!! :mad:
They are not savages!
AND THAT VIDEO IS FAKE!
Go back and do some research into what our saintly and compassionate soldiers did to enitre villages of unarmed civilians in Vietnam or perhaps more recently as to what has been committed against Iraqis during our occupation.
You will find plenty if you really care to inform yourself past ideologically based presumptions.
How do you happen know the video is fake? It could be, but chances are it is real. Of all the forums I've seen, left and right wing alike, I have not seen any people stating it is a fake. As a matter of fact the rightwing bushbots are the people who least dispute its authenticity. On the contrary: they just go into overdrive praising the firepower of the precious US Longbow Apache.
The video clip is most probably real Mat- face it. Your heroes the American soldiers and their government do commit atrocities just like many others. And there are countless other examples of war crimes and murders being carried out by the US military. The other video clip, for instance. Hell, at least the guys in the chopper are not cheering "awesome" at the sight of a seriously wounded man being shot dead like a mad dog. Or the many Vietnam massacres of civilians, as told not only by survivors but by US soldiers themselves.
If you are looking for beacons of freedom, democracy and respect for basic rights you are going to have to look harder. None of those qualities are found in the current US government or some of the members of its armed forces.