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self defence

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
what would you say is the best martial art / way of learning self defense?
ideas please... :)
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Joining a club! :p

    And as for the best one, gotta be kung fu :yes:. I mean, it's just cooler!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ShyBoy wrote: »
    kung fu
    would you say though that kung fu is more aggressive than self defense?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well self defence mainly is about learning not to get into a bad situation in the first place. Once you're in it, it's about fighting. In most martial arts they'll teach you how to block incoming blows which is important, and hopefully how to disable an attacker.

    But kung fu is cool :cool:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ju-jitzu
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,122 Skive's The Limit
    Boxing. No doubt about it.

    Boxing makes athletes.
    Nothing else will teach you the confidence and the ability to take a punch, better than boxing.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ive always been interested in kai-to (sp?)

    which is basically fighting with wooden katanas, as real ones are lethal, and various polearms.

    or i just watch a bunch of fight sequences from either videogames (realistic ones.. with the exception of soul calibur) or downloaded clips of fight moments.

    or watching the UFC :)

    still interested in kai-to though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was an orange belt with 2 stripes in Judo when I was younger, probably not the best martial art but I loved it and some of the blocks and throws that I can still remember, have come in very handy in scraps.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Krav Maga

    Ever seen "Bourne Identity"

    There is a style of fighting utilised in that film called KRAV MAGA.
    It's the official fighting style of the Israeli militia and its a vicious form of hand to hand combat.

    It's not particularily stylistic like Karate, but Karate isn't gonna help evade an alley attack.

    It's pretty brutal/down and dirty, but I did a course and it's saved my ass a couple of times.

    Check it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_maga
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if you want something just for self defence (rather than fitness, athleticism, hobby, the eastern philosophies etc), then boxing and similar western styles like krav magna and some wrestling styles would be suitable. also thai boxing (kickboxing). these disciplines will make you someone not to mess with.[;)]

    maybe try the japanese art of aikido. good for using opponents body weight against them. also uses strikes. brazilian ju-jitsu might be ok.

    but if you dont want to start one just to kick ass, then many eastern styles would be suitable, because there is a heavy philosophical side to them.

    @shyboy. kung fu is a very broad term covering all martial arts of china.

    @heyoka. kei-to? do you mean kendo? which is pretty much samurai training, with the grill like masks on? they use wooden sticks instead of katanas though. obviously.[;)]
    never heard of kei-to myself.....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Boxing. No doubt about it.

    Boxing makes athletes.
    Nothing else will teach you the confidence and the ability to take a punch, better than boxing.
    Yep, i'll agree with that. Anything other than boxing is a waste of time as a martial art learned specifically for self defence.
    I did karate for about 7/8 years when i was younger and never once did it help me in a volatile situation.

    Every single person i know that currently does or has done a martial art has ever used it on the street.

    What you have to ask yourself is which would hurt more - guy doing headbutts or guy with perfect balance??

    If you want to learn simply as a way of keeping fit, increasing your flexibility/balance to gain a sense of self achievement then take your pick.
    If you simply want to look cool and show off, learn to breakdance.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,122 Skive's The Limit
    drumbeat wrote: »
    if you want something just for self defence (rather than fitness, athleticism, hobby, the eastern philosophies etc), then boxing would be suitable. [;)]

    Boxing isn't just good for self defense, pro boxers are some of the most fit and all round athletic people in the world. It teaches a serious amount of stamina, and it makes and excellent hobby.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The best in my experience is a Russian martial art called Systema. It's designed for fighting multiple attackers just as much as single attackers. It was also taught to KGB operatives during the cold war as well as the Soviet Military.
    When I was growing up my next door neighbour was once in the Soviet Military who taught me enough Systema to handle myself.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,122 Skive's The Limit
    Ghost18 wrote: »
    When I was growing up my next door neighbour was once in the Soviet Military who taught me enough Systema to handle myself.


    Jap Slappings all good for building confidence, but nothing can replace slogging it out in the ring or the experience of fighting it out on a Friday/Saturday night in the street.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://www.russianmartialart.org.uk/

    Have a look at the video on here in the top write corner then tell me that you can't use it on the street.
    Sorry if it ain't hyperlinked but i'm useless at stuff like that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Boxing isn't just good for self defense, pro boxers are some of the most fit and all round athletic people in the world. It teaches a serious amount of stamina, and it makes and excellent hobby.

    yeah i agree. maybe i worded it wrong.
    icey wrote: »
    Every single person i know that currently does or has done a martial art has ever used it on the street.

    just a thought....
    if someone who studies a martial art got the chance to use it on the street, then surely some would come out. he wouldnt just go 'im gonna hit him with a standard western punch now...' would he? maybe its because of the philosophy behind that many dont even get in these situations...?

    .....or not. like i said, just a thought.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,122 Skive's The Limit
    drumbeat wrote: »
    just a thought....
    if someone who studies a martial art got the chance to use it on the street, then surely some would come out. he wouldnt just go 'im gonna hit him with a standard western punch now...' would he? maybe its because of the philosophy behind that many dont even get in these situations...?

    If you get into trouble with a drunk or a coked up meat head that wants to rip off your head, no jap slapping is going to be as effective as a swift kick in the balls, a finger in the eye, or a big fuck off bite.

    I honestly cannot see all this jap slapping stuff being that effective on the street. Good for teaching discapline and balance and stuff, and a bloody good hobby but not much use on the street. IMO.

    You think that guy in the video could handle Hatton, who's decidedly smaller? Put two similar weighted guys in the ring (no rules, no gloves), one trained in Systema and one pro boxer and I know who my money would be on.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, the Systema trained guy. It's a better all round martial art.
    Boxers are trained in a gym by hitting pads and punchbags. Not much good because punchbags DON'T move or react to punches whereas people do. Instead of learning how to throw the force of a punch out of your system when hit, you learn to take the hit and the pain that goes with it.

    In Systema only hits to the face are done on pads, all body strikes are practiced on people so you get to know where to punch to knock someone off balance and where to hurt.
    You also get trained in ways that if you are hit you throw it out of your body as well as using that force to throw a punch of your own.

    Why do you think they taught Systema to KGB operatives instead of things like boxing?

    It's okay being able to throw a punch but on the streets people have knives, broken bottles etc. A punch does sweet F.A against them does it? Systema does
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    If you get into trouble with a drunk or a coked up meat head that wants to rip off your head, no jap slapping is going to be as effective as a swift kick in the balls, a finger in the eye, or a big fuck off bite.

    Unless you are Mike Tyson, you ain't gonna bite somebody if you're a trained boxer are you?
    And where in boxing training do you learn to kick in the balls or poke in the eye? Where do you learn to kick full stop? That's street brawlers stuff. You don't learn that in Boxing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and on the street is where you find people with weapons. disarming someone with a weapon and locks and holds are not taught within boxing, as far as i know.

    but please dont think i'm anti-boxing. ;)i like watching it and fully respect it as a hobby/self defence/art form. regular boxing training does make you 'hard'. lol
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    drumbeat wrote: »
    and on the street is where you find people with weapons. disarming someone with a weapon and locks and holds are not taught within boxing, as far as i know.

    but please dont think i'm anti-boxing. ;)i like watching it and fully respect it as a hobby/self defence/art form. regular boxing training does make you 'hard'. lol

    I agree. I'm not anti-boxing, I've paid to watch many Ricky Hatton fights but I don't think it's the best form of self defence for the streets.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im not sure if there is a best form of self defence. i reckon it depends on your abilities and physique as to which would be best for an individual. wrestling/strikes/

    if you're tall with a big reach will make a very different fighter than a short stocky fella. you need to play on your strengths. if you're fast, then running would be a good option.

    i feel kickboxing would be a very good compromise though. kickboxers are, like many boxers, hard as fuck.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,122 Skive's The Limit
    Ghost18 wrote: »
    Yeah, the Systema trained guy. It's a better all round martial art.
    Boxers are trained in a gym by hitting pads and punchbags. Not much good because punchbags DON'T move or react to punches whereas people do. Instead of learning how to throw the force of a punch out of your system when hit, you learn to take the hit and the pain that goes with it.

    Sorry I thought boxers sparred and occsasionally fought in the ring. :D

    I know a fair few boxers, a couple of them pro's and I think I only know one person who's seriosuly trained in jap slaps, but again I know who my money would be on.

    Why is all the training on Systema I've seen on YouTube done is dodgy slow mo? It looks pretty, and probably looks good in the movies but seriously?
    If I started pulling out those sort of moves I'd probably succeed in defeating them by having them rolling aroudn on the floor laughing. :D
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=SJDnMDJVWmQ
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=3k57r4echTI
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And when I fight against boxers I just laugh because they only have one mindset. Unless they are professional boxers they have no plan B.

    They put clips in slow motion so you can see how it's done. It isn't hard to figure that out.
    If you had read my message properly you would see it says IN THE GYM. Yes, they do spar occasionally but that's with thick gloves on so it's not like a real street fight situation. Unless you walk round the streets with boxing gloves on.
    And the rolling around on the floor laughing bit. I've seen people taken away in ambulances after fighting with someone who knows systema. I've been in many fights with boxers on the streets, in pubs etc. and not a single one has ever beat me.
    Boxing is designed for in the gym and in the ring, NOT for the streets. And the occasional pub ruck.:D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do Muay Thai, its awesome, full contact and brutal, how I like it.

    I'd recommend it as a good form of defense and crazy for fitness and conditioning.

    Skive has made some good points RE the boxing, its awesome for use on the streets but I don't agree its the best in all accounts.

    If you REALLY want to be good then train in multiple disciplines and train in Mixed Martial Arts (MMA).

    Watch a fight like UFC or Pride and you can see some of the worlds best strikers get owned by BJJ and Judo grapplers (and visa versa).

    I would say pick anything which hardcore for fitness and teaches you a few basics (grappling, punches) and learn to take a few hits. Whichever you become good at will help you deck most average joes
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,122 Skive's The Limit
    Ghost18 wrote: »
    They put clips in slow motion so you can see how it's done. It isn't hard to figure that out.

    Why are there no clips showing it's use in real time? Anywhere?

    And if you've ever been hit properly by someone whereing a glove you'd know it that although it doesn't leave as many marks it far more likely to spark you out.

    It's not so much the style of fighting boxing teaches but the fitness and stamina you get from it.

    As I said before, in street fights and brawls nothing is is a match for experience, strength and agression, and pure dirtyness.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I've been hit by boxing gloves many times in my life. My brother was a boxer up until a few months ago when his girlfriend had a baby.
    I used to train with him. He used to try and punch me and I would use my skills to dodge. Now, watching him get into fights was funny as he could spark a guy out with either hand (advantage of being a switch hitter) but I still remember watching a guy sail about 5 feet across the bar from a jab. He learned Systema as well which gave him a plan B in bad situations. When I got into fights he used to sit back and watch coz he knew I'd batter whoever it was and I did the same with him.
    Getting off point here... Anyway what I'm saying is getting hit with gloves still isn't like the real thing on the streets. On the streets you have knuckles crashing into you, not just the force of the punch. You also have things like sovereign and saddle rings to contend with as well. Being able to take a punch or give a punch with gloves on is nothing like the real deal.

    Oh and watch this then, some slow motion stuff but some is in real time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuq50cDfrTs
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,122 Skive's The Limit
    Ghost18 wrote: »
    Anyway what I'm saying is getting hit with gloves still isn't like the real thing on the streets. On the streets you have knuckles crashing into you, not just the force of the punch. You also have things like sovereign and saddle rings to contend with as well. Being able to take a punch or give a punch with gloves on is nothing like the real deal.

    It hurts more for sure and is more likely to cut you, but it's less likely to knock you out. I used to mess around boxing with the lads off the site when I was at school and I've been in my fair share of fights on the town so I know the difference.

    Can you fidn me this Syetema in real time?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    It hurts more for sure and is more likely to cut you, but it's less likely to knock you out. I used to mess around boxing with the lads off the site when I was at school and I've been in my fair share of fights on the town so I know the difference.

    Can you find me this Systema in real time?

    It's about 50 seconds in to the clip I just gave you. Also at some points later on in the clip. Using your eyes you should be able to tell what's in real time.

    You've never never been hit with a saddle ring before then have you. If you had you'd know that a couple of punches from someone wearing one of them and you look worse than the freaky guy out of the Goonies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You'll learn everything you need to from Jean Claude Van Damme films...and/or from Mr Miyagi in Karate Kid.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,122 Skive's The Limit
    Ghost18 wrote: »

    Some of it certainly looks impressive. Still not full convinced though. :D
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
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