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Depressed young men: because they can't get laid?

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Anecdotal and statistic evidence indicates depression and suicide in young men is higher than other groups.

Do you think it is because they don't have a partner to care for and are not in a relationship, along with all the affection that that brings?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anecdotal and statistic evidence indicates depression and suicide in young men is higher than other groups.

    Do you think it is because they don't have a partner to care for and are not in a relationship, along with all the affection that that brings?

    Definately.

    I know the feeling, it isn't a happy one. Can be absolutely devastating and even lethal in extreme cases, esp. if you induce it. This is only in extreme cases though and a sane person wouldn't take a turn-down as a defeat and continue the chase! :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i dont have a relationship and im feeling upset. although ive had suicidal thoughts im not suicidal...those statistics seem right on
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
    was in a funny mood when I wrote this, sorry
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,283 Skive's The Limit
    But why is being alone any worse for men? I don't think that's the reason, or it certainly isn't as simple as that anyway.
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    I don't think that's the reason, or it certainly isn't as simple as that anyway.

    Me neither. Has the OP got a link to these stats ?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i think its part of modern society and id guess that those reasons for women would be along the same lines.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Here's another scientific socialogical critique of the male condition and why we exist. Talks about asexual reproduction in other organisms and scales this up to a social discuss as to why males exist. Also views men as parasites: from viruses up to complex organisms - males exist to copy themselves using another host creature - in their case females.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Y-Descent-Men-Steve-Jones/dp/0316856150
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Let me add: I do not entirely argue that there's a direct correlation between suicides and relationships, and as mentioned, young men are as vulnerable as young women, as are other age groups, but to a lesser extent. I don't believe that is a sole reason that there's a high suicidial rate in young men, although i still adamantly believe that loneliness can be a killer

    What a shocking discovery ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There probably is some truth in that but the same applies to women. I think generally women need stability more than men.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hormones?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think generally women need stability more than men.
    Not sure about that. From my limited experience women always seem optimistic and self sufficient.

    I live alone in my own placeand do experience loneliness.

    Women seem to me as social creatures by default and enjoy the entry into all social situations without a hidden agenda.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hormones
    Yep, most likely :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In my experience women have stronger emotional networks than men, so they talk about their problems more.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Too simplistic, are you suggesting that a large number of the men who top themsleves are single?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is all just adding to the cause of the sympathy fuck really isn't it..

    "Please let me nail you, I'm feeling suicidal" :lol:

    Saved that one for later..
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you think it is because they don't have a partner to care for and are not in a relationship, along with all the affection that that brings?
    Not specifically.

    I do think that men and women tend to get depressed for different reasons, and that is reflected by our different roles and expectations in society (yes they do still exist, no matter how PC you want to get about it). I would suggest that men are likely to get depressed because of a lack of a relationship, whereas women are likely to get depressed because their existing relationship is shite. I would have a guess that men who have never had any female attention by the time they reach 25 grossly outnumber women in the same (opposite) situation.

    But I think far and away the overwhelming factor is that there is more pressure on men to succeed (from society, from women, and from themselves). For a start, women will tend to find a man more attractive if he is more successful (there's obviously other factors, but it is one of them). Successful in the professional sense, and in the social sense (i.e. having a nice girlfriend, or being able to almost take your pick of the girls in a club) both of which are set up that 90% of people fail. Despite the efforts of certain strands of femenism, I just don't think that that pressure exists for women. I mean how many women would feel like a failure if they earned less than their partner?

    So I would say that actually it's women who are more likely to get depressed for social reasons, but I also think that women are far less likely to "fail" in this regard.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There's got to be alot more to it, surely?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Eh, dudes who can't get laid might feel bad about themselves sure. Probably just a very minor thing compaired with all the other causes of suicide though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, I think that's bollocks, to be quite honest. Otherwise you wouldn't get so many young men hanging themselves despite having attractive young girlfriends and good academic degrees.

    I was getting laid regularly with a girl who is now my wife, and I was still cutting myself every night and having to go through intensive psychiatric therapy.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Anecdotal and statistic evidence indicates depression and suicide in young men is higher than other groups.

    Do you think it is because they don't have a partner to care for and are not in a relationship, along with all the affection that that brings?

    no. not at all. i think thats what some depressed people blame it on. but nobody absolutly needs anther person to make them feel happy. - what a strained relationship that would be - an individual is perfectly capable no matter who they are of being happy themselves and feeling good about themselves in a way which is not dependant on anybody else. not having a partner might relate to feeling lonley but that is not the same thing as depression.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Might be worth the OP bearing in mind that you can have your own views - but you need to link to something of revelance to support it, if you want to present it as anything other than your own viewpoint.

    The suicide rate is, right now anyway, the lowest it has been for 30 years, and although you're right to say men are more likely than women to kill themselves (about 75% of suicides are men) - the majority of suicides of people I've known (through work or otherwise) tended to be driven by far more complicated and difficult situations than because someone couldn't get a girlfriend.

    Certainly depression played a part - but the reality is depressed people aren't particularly pleasant to be around, especially during very low periods - and that is going to make it very hard for a relationship to survive - let alone for someone to start dating them. I'd think there's a strong case of chicken and egg about people not having relationships because they are depressed rather than the other way around.

    And certainly one of the biggest causes of suicide are more serious mental health problems than the reactive depression you describe (which is to say depression cause by a particular life event or change) - clinical depression, bi-polar disorders and schizophrenia were highly evident in most people I knew who killed themselves when I worked in mental health.

    But as the areas where suicides occur are also often poor and deprived, especially rural areas where much industry has died out, or occurs amongst highly stressed professions (I'm pretty certain that the highest professions for suicide were farmers followed by NHS dentists followed by social workers who specialised in child protection) - which would suggest that other enviromental factors have a big part to play.

    Ultimately, I think this is a much more complex issue and to suggest that young men are killing themselves because they don't have a relationship is bizarre given the fact that many, many young men do have relationships.

    The stats by the way are here -

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=13618
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd also point out that simply looking at these discussion boards, the questions asked on askTheSite, or the patients in any mental health ward - the frankly odd idea that in some way men are depressed and women are just happy bouncy social creatures is blatantly untrue.

    Depression rates and anxiety disorders remain higher in women than men (with 11% percent of all women experiencing what the national statistics website terms - 'mixed anxiety and depressive disorder' - whereas men are shown at 6%)

    As the conditions become more serious it tends to level out - which would suggest that lower level illness tends to be discussed more openly by women than men (or it's more evident given situations like post-natal depression where a problem will be noticed due to a higher level of medical involvement) - so it may ultimately be true that the level is the same, but it's pretty unlikely it's significantly higher in men.

    Oh and by the way the highest rate of suicide is amongst 60 - 75 year olds - not young men, the concern was the increase in the suicide rate of young men - they have never been the most likely to kill themselves
    ( http://community.netdoktor.com/ccs/uk/depression/facts/whatis/article.jsp?articleIdent=uk.depression.facts.whatis.uk_depression_article_1892 )
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    But as the areas where suicides occur are also often poor and deprived, especially rural areas where much industry has died out, or occurs amongst highly stressed professions (I'm pretty certain that the highest professions for suicide were farmers followed by NHS dentists followed by social workers who specialised in child protection) - which would suggest that other enviromental factors have a big part to play.
    One statistic which I was interested in (which could be bullshit, I don't know) is that Japan has the highest rate of suicide. It would be interested to know what it is about Japanese culture that gives them such a high suicide rate compared to other developed countries.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think that its the demand for perfection and that If someone doesn't conform to these standards then they kill themselves.

    look up seppuku and see what I mean.

    also there are suicide groups in Japan, its real freaky.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't think it's as high as it was - but certainly in 2004 it remained near the top ten - if you removed the Soviet Union and former Eastern-bloc countries it remains the highest of western countries.

    I've always understood that the culture of repressing problems, trying to deal with situations on your own, incredible pressure to succeed, the devastating effects of economic downturn on salarymen with no idea of how to handle unemployment all played their part.

    In addition it's worth noting that the high japanese rate occurs in mid-twenties to forties - not in teenagers or young men.

    The top of the list for those interested btw is - (per 100,000 male/female - ranking based on male rates here)

    1. Lithuania 74.3/13.9
    2. Russian Federation 69.3/11.9
    3. Belarus 63.3/10.3
    4. Kazakhstan 50.2/8.8
    5. Estonia 47.7/9.8
    6. Ukraine 46.7/8.4
    7. Latvia 45/9.7
    8. Slovenia 45/12
    9. Hungary 44.9/12
    10. Sri Lanka 44.6/16.8
    11. Japan 35.2/12.8
    12. Finland 31.9/9.8

    and us...

    56. United Kingdom 10.8/3.1

    ( http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide_rates/en/index.html )

    and here's the 2002 WHO suicide map

    suicide.jpg

    and the 2000 WHO breakdown of world suicide rates by age and gender

    Distribution_of_suiciderates_chart.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    But as the areas where suicides ... occurs amongst highly stressed professions ... (followed by social workers who specialised in child protection)
    I'm well damned for depression then :(
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In the UK, you might be more supported in your country blue...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How much is that South America gives greater support and how much is because active Catholicism has a stronger base there and it regards suicide as a mortal sin.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How much is that South America gives greater support and how much is because active Catholicism has a stronger base there and it regards suicide as a mortal sin.
    Durkheim's classic study of suicide argued something along these lines; he found that suicide rates were higher among protestants than catholics, but higher among catholics than jews, and attributed it to levels of social cohesion and integration. Protestant (and I guess we could extrapolate from that to essentially secular societies) have lower levels of social cohesion and support networks and make suicide more likely.

    It was written over 100 years ago but I think it's still a really interesting thesis, because we in the west really value our freedom and individuality and tend to be suspicious of communities that have high levels of social control and authority; and yet maybe we actually need these things to bring us emotional stability and security, and without them are more prone to the kinds of mental illnesses that lead to suicide. An interesting thought, anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How much is that South America gives greater support and how much is because active Catholicism has a stronger base there and it regards suicide as a mortal sin.
    That's not true, since the advancement of mental health sciences proved that suicides were caused by these kind of troubles the Catholic Church ceased to view suicide as a mortal sin.

    I think religion does play an important part on preventing suicides though, but it's got more to do with the point sophia was making - that religious communities provide a social network of support for people, thus making them much more cohesioned and integrated.
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