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What is the value of truth?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    Just because someone doesn't agree with me doesn't mean there isn't an absolute. It means they're wrong.

    What's so hard to follow here?

    Haha you're just proving my point even more that there's no such thing as an absolute truth. Here have a blue peter badge. :D
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fiend_85 wrote:
    There is an absolute deity

    Okay. Prove it.
    I believe I am saved through the sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ.

    Just because you believe something doesn't make it the "truth". It's an opinion at best.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Okay. Prove it.
    Just because you believe something doesn't make it the "truth". It's an opinion at best.

    But something may be true and unproovable. Either God exists or he doesn't - the fact that until you pop you clogs you can't proove it either way doesn't change the truth.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But something may be true and unproovable. Either God exists or he doesn't - the fact that until you pop you clogs you can't proove it either way doesn't change the truth.

    Not really the point though.

    There's a difference between:

    It's true that God either exists or he doesn't

    and

    It's true that God exists/doesn't exist individually.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    Science and maths can prove that the sun releases x amount of light in a day or that 1 plus 1 equals 2.
    But then these truths are based on measurements invented by man.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To take 9/11 as an example - there is an objective 'truth' in that someone destroyed the towers. 99.9% of people may never know what this truth is, they may believe it was Al Q or they may believe it was GWB.
    From a purely 'real world' physical perspective, nothing was 'destroyed' on 9/11. Everything that was there previously is still there now (unless it's been subsequently moved) it's just that it's form has been changed.

    I would say the only absolute truth is what you see, hear, touch, taste, smell and think. Anything else, such as ways of measuring it, and interpreting it for other people is man-made, and as a result, fallible, and no longer 'truth'. Even if you claimed we were in some sort of Matrix-style fake world, it would still be truth, because it would still be what you experience.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    I would say the only absolute truth is what you see, hear, touch, taste, smell and think.

    None of the above can be proven true.

    The only thing we can say for certainty is that "There are thoughts" - we do not know who, or indeed what, is having them.

    I know I am being picky, but our senses, indeed, our very conciousness is faliable. We know for sure that 100% what you see IS NOT what is in the world - we our limited to the fact that the human eye is flawed. People are colour blind - and cats have better sight than us. Hearing - dogs hear more than us, what we hear is NOT what is actually out there to hear. We miss alot of detail.

    The truth - well, there is very little we can know to be true. We just make reasonable judgement on what we know - and we get by. It could be anything, this life - we might find out what it is when we die, we might not, that might just be the end. Nothing after. Ho hum.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But then these truths are based on measurements invented by man.

    No, these are things are proven. I think it actually took 100 pages of calculations to prove unequivocally that 1+1=2.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Okay. Prove it.

    Prove that He doesn't.

    Ultimately this is cyclical, until either of us is in the position of aquiring all knowledge and proving it (in which case we'd be in the position of the being the absolute and therefore the absolute does exist) you're not going to know until you're dead.

    More to the point, you're all post modernists, so the burden of proof is not on me, it's ok for me have one truth, because that's not true for you. Even if it actually was and you didn't know it.

    But as forementioned, because you don't know or understand something doesn't mean you are not bound by it. Just because some bloke in his shed doesn't understand or know about the second law of thermodynamics doesn't mean he's going to make his perpetual motion machine, he'll fail just the same.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I used to behave as if there was one absolute truth (mine) :razz:, but after reading Maturana I realised I was acting only on my own distinctions. I realise now there is a multiplicity of 'truths', which are determined by people's social and biological experiences (distinctions). However, it brings forth great contradictions in me because I still believe there is an absolute truth (God), but I guess in the end I have solved it by while not letting go of my 'absolute truth' I have come to respect others' 'absolute truths' as equally important than mine. This of course brings forth another set of contradictions but well- you can't have everything solved can you? :razz:

    Anyway, people interested in this topic should read Maturana or other constructivists. Epistemology has become ever more interesting since the irruption of constructivism. Here's a link to Maturana's thinking if anyone's interested http://www.oikos.org/vinclife.htm#2
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