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What is the value of truth?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Well this is a bit of a stream of conciounce, but I hope people pick up what I'm saying. First if we define truth as: the true or actual state of a matter (from Dictionary.com).
Ok, now then, most of us value the truth don't we? Whether we want the truth from politicians, or our employers, or even just our partners, we don't want to be lied to. But, if you're pragmatic (or possibly a bit cynical) about things, what does the truth matter?
Take this example: a person has cheated on their spouse, the truth will only cause harm will it or not? So there is an argument there for the truth not to be revealed. However, if you were the spouse, then you would want to know if they had cheated on you, even if it hurt - wouldn't you?
In politics we want to know the truth of how the country is run - but I am not sure why as we are unable to change it. For example, assasinations, torture and interrogation are (hypothetically
) regular parts of the MoDs actions, yet they will always be denied. We want to know the truth, but what difference would it make?
I cant understand why we want the truth so much, when a lot of the time it will be not what we want to hear. When we're young we are taught not to lie, lying is bad. There are circumstances when it's important to tell the truth for the welfare of others, for example if you met someone and were going to bed with them but were HIV positive then you should tell them for their benefit.
But so many 'truths' are just hollow, an empty, useless fact that can't be changed and just causes difficulty and upset. So why bother?
But then personally, I will always tell the truth, because the 'idea' of truth means something to me. If it's confessing to some petty crime, I would, when blame could be avoided easily, just for my own conciounce perhaps. Why do we feel guilt about lying? Are we preconditioned from a young age, as our parents program us to tell them the truth about everything so they can make sure there is nothing in our lives they can't protect us from?
Final question for you to answer: Does the truth actually matter?
Ok, now then, most of us value the truth don't we? Whether we want the truth from politicians, or our employers, or even just our partners, we don't want to be lied to. But, if you're pragmatic (or possibly a bit cynical) about things, what does the truth matter?
Take this example: a person has cheated on their spouse, the truth will only cause harm will it or not? So there is an argument there for the truth not to be revealed. However, if you were the spouse, then you would want to know if they had cheated on you, even if it hurt - wouldn't you?
In politics we want to know the truth of how the country is run - but I am not sure why as we are unable to change it. For example, assasinations, torture and interrogation are (hypothetically
) regular parts of the MoDs actions, yet they will always be denied. We want to know the truth, but what difference would it make?I cant understand why we want the truth so much, when a lot of the time it will be not what we want to hear. When we're young we are taught not to lie, lying is bad. There are circumstances when it's important to tell the truth for the welfare of others, for example if you met someone and were going to bed with them but were HIV positive then you should tell them for their benefit.
But so many 'truths' are just hollow, an empty, useless fact that can't be changed and just causes difficulty and upset. So why bother?
But then personally, I will always tell the truth, because the 'idea' of truth means something to me. If it's confessing to some petty crime, I would, when blame could be avoided easily, just for my own conciounce perhaps. Why do we feel guilt about lying? Are we preconditioned from a young age, as our parents program us to tell them the truth about everything so they can make sure there is nothing in our lives they can't protect us from?
Final question for you to answer: Does the truth actually matter?
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Comments
ignorance is bliss and all that, but the idea of anyone else in control of my life or my perseption of my life doesn't appeal to me. i suppose its just issues of control.
also, theres a difference between telling a lie and not telling the truth, eg; not even mentioning it at all. i'm a soddin awful lier, but i can get away with something if its not talked about.
even if we all knew exactly how the world worked, a lot of people would still question it. are you saying that you would rather live in a bubblewrapped world where you dont have to deal with anything? just pretend something bad doesnt exist? sometimes life seems crap. sometimes it feels utter shite. everyone feels that. i dont see the truth as a useless fact. quite the opposite.
if you did ignore / were obvilious to the things that make you unhappy, 'the truth' is still happening, while 'the lie' exists only in your own head. and when you meet somebody, they might think you were an overly happy, naive little prick.
i do think everyone blocks out reality from time to time. drugs, alcohol, bed, tv...whatever. everyone needs a form of escapism. but i dont agree with blocking it out completely. if you ignore the outside world, you are living in your own world. if you live within your own head you'd go fuckin mad. i would anyway.
I disagree to an extent. There is a truth - either A happened or B. We may never find out which is true and our belief on what happened may be influenced by our beliefs, but that doesn't mean their isn't an objective truth.
Well, relative truth then.
For example: the Earth is round, is more relatively true than the Earth being flat. Surely?
Exactly what I said, we may believe that 'fact' A is true, but we dont know its true.
Is it? Frankly I dont know, it would certainly seem to be round, but do you really know?
I agree in many cases we'll never know the truth.
But there still is a 'truth' whether we know it or not.
To take 9/11 as an example - there is an objective 'truth' in that someone destroyed the towers. 99.9% of people may never know what this truth is, they may believe it was Al Q or they may believe it was GWB.
If the towers were in reality destroyed by drunken Welsh Nationalists who got it muddled up with Canary Wharf this is still true even if everyone believes something else.
I believe that there is an absolute truth and that it is the most important thing, that ultimately to know the truth is a good thing
I'm not in anyway suggesting that because we can not definitely know the truth we shouldnt try. We should make efforts to provide an honest account of our own lifes to ourselves and we should make efforts to understand the world around us as best we can.
But if it is beyond our perception how do we know its there?
I see what you mean though, one could argue that there is 'the truth' existing beyond our understanding, but that doesnt really get us anywhere does it.
for example; if a highly religious person got proof that there is no higher being, or an atheist gained proof that there was a god. (i know proof either way is hard to come by, but its only an example.)
whatever we all believe, whatever it is, we believe it to be true. you cannot believe what you think is false, cos then you wouldnt believe it. as opposed to what? it doesnt matter what makes the truth worth knowing. whatever we think we know becomes our own truth, despite what the rest of the world thinks, and despite what the actual truth is.
you would think so, wouldnt you......
Of course, and as I said we should make efforts to be truthful to ourselves and find out 'the truth' about the world as best we can. But we cant, humans will always be biased, always twist things, always lie and always act in self interest.
I suppose I may as well ask what is love :razz:. Do you think animals believe in truth? Love? Freedom? Or are they merely human constructs? Or, if we were to travel the universe and found ET and his mates, would they think just as highly of 'truth' as we do?
I dont think humans value it so highly at all, not only do we all lie, but virtually none of us make any real efforts to understand ourselves or the world around us.
The truth is the greatest of all human comodities - it can give us knowledge. Knowledge is what humanity needs, it craves - however, the truth is seemingl in question alot of the time - if one person belives one thing, and another believes a different thing - both claim to believe in what is true - both are unproven and cannot be proven - what are we to do?
Science and maths can prove that the sun releases x amount of light in a day or that 1 plus 1 equals 2.
Other truths are less concise, almost no one agrees with raping and murdering children, but you can't say it's true that doing that is wrong because ultimately, your opinion is based on your moral outlook of it, ie. subjective.
Care to elaborate?
Morals are made based on subjective observations on life and experiences. How can there be an absolute truth?
Those are the key words, you said there's an absolute truth on morality like it was some objective fact.
We could still go on for a while though...
There is?
I don't see see how we could go back and forth.
It's pretty clear, you believe there is an aboluste truth on morality based on your religious beliefs, not everyone shares your religious beliefs so there is no ultimate truth. End of story.
What's so hard to follow here?