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Green Taxes
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
All this talk about introducing "green taxes" on petrol really gets my goat.
I would gladly take the train to work if a monthly season ticket didn't cost the same as a month's rent! How are these taxes supposed to have any effect on the environment if there are no viable alternatives in place?
I'm not against the idea of increasing the price of petrol - but only if the price of a train ticket comes down, and the buses are more reliable etc etc.
I would gladly take the train to work if a monthly season ticket didn't cost the same as a month's rent! How are these taxes supposed to have any effect on the environment if there are no viable alternatives in place?
I'm not against the idea of increasing the price of petrol - but only if the price of a train ticket comes down, and the buses are more reliable etc etc.
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The question which taxes to cut, it would need to be done in a way that didn't undermine the incentives to pollute less but that was equitable and progressive to a substantial degree.
In the end though it is an international agreement that is needed else the efforts of the UK and similar countries won't make much of a difference.....
Living in London, we have a brilliant (if a little bit pricy) public transport system... You don't need to drive. However I come from Wales where the public transport is crap... So I can see how it might cause problems.
If i want to get to work in the morning i can take a 10-15 minute drive. If i were to catch the bus it would be a 25 minute bus to town to connect with a second bus that would take another 20 -25 minutes and take me nearly an hour.
It's all very well saying that we need to start using public transport, but sometimes it's just not an option!
I remember living in Wales I needed a bus to get to a mate's house... Three were scheduled withing two hours, all which arrived within two minutes of each other at quarter past.
A lot of buses have been stopped to rural villages after 6 because of children throwing rocks at them.
But the aviation industry has (for reasons that escape me) got the government by the balls.
What bothers me is the whole, tax on household waste. It is a fair enough idea i say, but not when they neglect to take into account the amount of people in a household. Surely a household with 2 parents and 6 children will already have enough costs with out massive taxes on the waste produced by having a large family if you see what i mean.
Also, i read there was a proposal to put a tax on using recycling bins, you know the green bins, the more paper you put in the bin the more you get taxed, just like the regular bins...is it me or is that just retarded?
I agree with this idea much more than the idea of raising car tax on "gas-guzzling" cars. Having an upfront charge on high-polluting vehicles would make much more sense and have more chance of persuading people to buy greener, rather than hitting them with taxes after they have the car - and can't exactly change the fact they have that car very easily.
:yes: I also agree with this. The quotas (if there are any) should take into account how many people live in the house.
But I think we also need more advice about what we can recycle before they start heaping on the taxes. Especially where plastics are concerned - how much of the plastic packaging on food can actually be recycled? I don't know, and it doesn't always say on it whether it can be recycled. And if I'm in doubt I put it in with the normal rubbish.
Stupid fuckers, trying to stop people driving - if we had good public transport, maybe! Plus car's DO NOT cause the majorit of pollution. Hell, they make a small, small fraction.
Take action on industrial stronghoouses like China and the USA and Russia. That might have an affect instead of this daft idea, eh?
Big Industry does Big Polluting. However, we can't argue with the three superpowers, no.
I seriously doubt that the railway season ticket is more expensive than the car when you take into account petrol prices and parking prices. I've done long-distance commuting and for one person its nearly always cheaper to use public transport.
If you live in a city then there are plenty of viable alternatives- the question is whether or not you want to use them. Rural transport is a problem, and public transport cannot replace private transport for everyone, but if you are living and commuting in urban areas then public transport is nearly always a viable alternative.
The problem comes when you have families trying to use public transport, as there are few incentives for families to use public transport as the cost is usually much higher than by car. That's why I would be in favour of multiple-occupancy lanes for those who use their cars sensibly.
How do you think Miliband's 'per-mile' car tax will be calculated? You can forget any rights to privacy; if the climate change lobby and their cheerleader politicians got their way they would stick black boxes in every car to monitor every car journey and charge us...
The fact is transport actually makes up a small percentage of emissions. (See the pie-chart).
And lets not forget only 2% of global emissions are attributable to Britain. The idea that 'green taxes' in Britain will save the planet is absurd, if the climate change brigade turn out to be right any actions by Britain on emissions are meaningless without the likes of China, India and the US being on board.
Meanwhile the constant talking of global warming being a man made phenomenon as indisputable fact is getting rather tedious. Thank god for people like Professor Philip Stott. (Before the smearing starts it's worth noting that Stott along with many others who question the climate change lobby is completely independent of oil companies, neocons and whatever else).
Now given that even if you were a signed up member of the diehard man-made global warming clan you would have to be incredibly thick to believe taxing UK car drivers through the roof would save the planet you have to ask what the true agenda is behind green taxes. Not only is it to push taxes up, it's also to try and rob people of the liberty and independence that a car provides and make people even more reliant on the State through forcing them on to buses.
Trust me - I did the maths! The thing that really frustrates me is that I don't particularly want to use my car to get to work. I'd much rather use the train. Admittedly I haven't been living in the south for very long, but seriously, how can you justify £350 a month for a season ticket for a 25 minute journey?
And to be honest, for a half-hour journey I'm not even that bothered about comfort (if that's why the train prices are so high??) I'm not bothered about comfy seats and extra leg room and on-board refreshments - I just want to get to work.
I'd agree about Sunday services being appalling- in most areas frequency is halved- but that doesn't affect most travellers. Public transport cannot entirely replace private transport, especially for shift workers, but for urban and inter-urban commuters it certainly can and certainly should.
As for cars getting you there "on time"- they don't. People just don't whinge about the delays when they're driving because its more "convenient". That's why nobody demands that road bosses be sacked after delays on motorways- where's the outrage over the six-hour tailbacks on the M62 on Tuesday after a lorry caught fire? If that had been a train stuck for six hours after an accidental fire it'd be a front-page story, and you'd have everyone wanking on about how its all the fault of fat cat train bosses.
Dis, I'm dubious about global warming too, but that is only a tiny part of pollution and the environment. Do you live on a main road? I did- and I had to clean my windows every fortnight because of the filth on them. Filth that was going in my lungs, in my bloodstream. I'm not sure how anyone can say that's desirable, and I'm not sure how anyone can say that anything that cuts the pollution is a good thing. I am all in favour of road tolls for urban driving, and bringing in more multiple-occupancy lanes (such as the one on the A647 in Leeds) would be a fantastic idea. If everyone drove one friend to work traffic pollution and congestion would be halved- why would anyone be against that?
Internal flights are almost completely unjustifiable in this country- certain extreme journeys like Aberdeen-Plymouth could be justified- and the UK railway system is in a fantastic condition (compare it to most of Europe with a train every 2-3 hours between the major cities) and the distances are tiny. The local newspaper here found that the train is about 45 minutes quicker to central London than the plane from here (taking into account check-in times and the faff of getting on the train to the airport), and from Edinburgh its over half an hour quicker. From Manchester unless you're specifically wanting to go from Wythenshawe to Heathrow the train is quicker, and far more environmentally friendly. As for cost, well that's why aviation tax for domestic flights should go up tenfold, and that's why airlines should be barred from taking any tax breaks from airports, and that's why airlines should have to pay the full cost of aviation fuel.
The governement needs to supply incentives to people for their vehicles. They need to be pushing manufacturers to be willing to make and use more enviromentally friendly vehicles also.
It's no use pushing up taxes if the public serves are not their to supply the deman accuratly. They should be talking with local governemnts / public service firms about providing an even greater service to people. I don't own a car but if i did i'd happily take the train or bus anywhere over the car if it was affordable and actually reliable.
Yet another slap in the face of people who already pay enough in taxes and dont see enough of it back.
Why should they? And how do they pay for it, exactly?
Car use should be made as difficult as possible in cities, because in any major city in this country public transport is more than viable. For those who travel in from rural areas park-and-ride should be set up.
The roads build themselves, do they?
Aladdin, in fairness O'Leary is right- most pollution comes from road transport, and that is where the efforts should be concentrated. Starting by making the car useless for journeys of less than ten miles. Attacks on the airline industry at the moment smack of nothing more than rich people being pissed off that the poor can now afford to travel abroad.
Absolutely. Traffic congestion is not desirable, the fumes and noise reduce the quality of life for those living near to busy roads. Car use in cities is not ideal and should be discouraged. What I oppose is blanket punishment of car use through charging people per mile; such a scheme ignores the fact that car use is frequently essential and would discriminate against those in rural areas.
Bear in mind many people on domestic flights are going to Heathrow for a connecting flight. In such cases flying makes sense. Our trains are expensive, more expensive I have found than other European countries and budget airlines are sometimes cheaper domestically. Also, without the competition of budget airlines the train companies would no doubt increase their fares. I'd generally agree though, it makes sense to use the train instead of a plane where possible and given that a train is usually more comfortable than a Ryanair flight people will generally choose trains over planes. (I know I'm not the only one who would like to use the Eurostar but finds it too expensive and budget airlines cheaper).
I would be against black box recordings because it is a huge invasion of privacy, and I simply don't trust any government to deal with the information they record in wholly honourable ways. Because of that I'd always be against per-mile charging, even before we get to the stage of considering just how badly any per-mile charging scheme would hamstring the rural community.
That said, I understand that people would be charged according to when they use the roads, and which roads they use- rural roads would be free whilst using the M25 at 8.50am would cost a fortune. And I certainly wouldn't be against charging non-residents a fortune to enter the Lake District in their cars. So it does have its pros as well as cons.
I would certainly be in favour of road charging in city centres.
What exactly is a green tax on petrol?
as it is at the moment for every £1 you spent at the pump on petrol about 85p is pure tax. How much more tax do you want to add?
What exactly is a green tax on petrol?
as it is at the moment for every £1 you spent at the pump on petrol about 82p is pure tax. How much more tax do you want to add?
What exactly is a green tax on petrol?
as it is at the moment for every £1 you spent at the pump on petrol about 82p is pure tax. How much more tax do you want to add?
What exactly is a green tax on petrol?
as it is at the moment for every £1 you spent at the pump on petrol about 82p is pure tax. How much more tax do you want to add?