Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

CIA applies for permission to torture

13

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Its not good that people believe that. But people can believe whatever they like. Its whether they're likely to act on it that is the proper subject of debate.

    And a lot do. Anti-Semitism is steadily rising. If you ever pick up a JC left on the tube there's a lot of really nasty vandalism on synagogues and gravestones that unless particularly notorious is not reported in the mainstream media. Of course not all the perpetrators of such attacks are Muslim but unfortunately a disproportionate amount are. There's a reason your bag gets searched when you go to a family friend's bar mitzvah at the local synagogue. (I don't know of normal churches having security on the door).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Really? Where do you get that figure from?

    See the December 9th - December 19th 2005 poll from the Times on the Populus website
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    See the December 9th - December 19th 2005 poll from the Times on the Populus website

    Yes, I agree that is very worrying. However - it has to put in perspective. You yourself think that punishing the entire population of Gaza for the actions of a minority is legitimate, you think that indiscrimnately murdering Lebanese people in response to the actions of a minority is legitimate. Extremists are extremists dis - I condemn the Muslim extremists but I also condemn people who support the murderous actions of Israel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Yes, I agree that is very worrying. However - it has to put in perspective. You yourself think that punishing the entire population of Gaza for the actions of a minority is legitimate, you think that indiscrimnately murdering Lebanese people in response to the actions of a minority is legitimate. Extremists are extremists dis - I condemn the Muslim extremists but I also condemn people who support the murderous actions of Israel.

    I'm not sure how bringing Israel into the equation puts things into perspective. It provides a convenient opportunity for you to criticise Israel but little else. What has Muslims thinking British Jews are a 'legitimate target' got to do with the actions of a foreign country? To the vast majority of British Jews Israel is a foreign country, most don't hold Israeli citizenship and most have lived in Britain their entire lives having been born here...

    And nowhere have I supported indiscriminate murder of innocent people. I reluctantly recognised the need for Israel to fight an enemy that initiated hostilities, I certainly didn't take any pleasure in the events that followed in the grim reality of a war that Israel did not seek. Anyway, nice way to sidetrack the debate...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I guess what does my head about your views dis is the complete one sidedness of them. You (rightly) condemn Islamist extremists, but support Zionist extremism and Israel's indiscriminate murder of civilians (and however much you try and wriggle out of it, you can't. You have been quite vocal on here in your support of Israel and your denial (against all evidence) of Israel's targetting of civilians). You (rightly) condemn Islamist groups for barbaric views then support the use of torture by the US. You (rightly) condemn Islamist groups for targetting civilans but defend the right of Israel to attempt to starve Palestinians into submission. Its as if you can't see the cause and effect, its as if you can't see that supporting the use of torture is only going to drive more people into the arms of radical Islamism. You can't see that Israel's behaviour is driving terrorism. You can't see that the actions of the US and UK governments is radicalising some Muslim youths.

    You're cheering the world onto destruction and it makes me sick.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I guess what does my head about your views dis is the complete one sidedness of them. You (rightly) condemn Islamist extremists, but support Zionist extremism and Israel's indiscriminate murder of civilians (and however much you try and wriggle out of it, you can't. You have been quite vocal on here in your support of Israel and your denial (against all evidence) of Israel's targetting of civilians). You (rightly) condemn Islamist groups for barbaric views then support the use of torture by the US. You (rightly) condemn Islamist groups for targetting civilans but defend the right of Israel to attempt to starve Palestinians into submission. Its as if you can't see the cause and effect, its as if you can't see that supporting the use of torture is only going to drive more people into the arms of radical Islamism. You can't see that Israel's behaviour is driving terrorism. You can't see that the actions of the US and UK governments is radicalising some Muslim youths.

    You're cheering the world onto destruction and it makes me sick.

    Without going even more off topic, but what cause and effect are we talking about? Whilst it may be true that Israeli actions increase Palestinian militancy, Palestinian militancy also fuels Israeli actions. Unless you think that the Israeli's are the only actors and the Palestinians are just puppets you have to see Israeli actions in the light that they feel threatened and persecuted and for historical reasons take a very strong line in defence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes of course Israel feels threatened. However, it has a long history of acting completely disproportiantely and actively stirring things up. It pretends to be an enlightened western style democracy - maybe its time it started acting like one.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Yes of course Israel feels threatened. However, it has a long history of acting completely disproportiantely and actively stirring things up. It pretends to be an enlightened western style democracy - maybe its time it started acting like one.

    yes, but to understand the situation you need to ask yourself, why and what can realistically be done about it? Blaming Israel, may be nice and fun and make you feel better, but it isn't going to solve a thing.

    Is Dis forgiving about Israeli actions - probably yes. Are you and others just as forgiving about Arab actions - probably yes. At least from what I've seen getting condemnations of bombings of israeli buses and attacks on civilians has to be dragged out.

    Now personally I don't think Israel is wholly innocent, but I don't think its the only actor and i certainly don't think defending it paints someone as an anti-Muslim extremist.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I guess what does my head about your views dis is the complete one sidedness of them. You (rightly) condemn Islamist extremists, but support Zionist extremism and Israel's indiscriminate murder of civilians (and however much you try and wriggle out of it, you can't. You have been quite vocal on here in your support of Israel and your denial (against all evidence) of Israel's targetting of civilians). You (rightly) condemn Islamist groups for barbaric views then support the use of torture by the US. You (rightly) condemn Islamist groups for targetting civilans but defend the right of Israel to attempt to starve Palestinians into submission. Its as if you can't see the cause and effect, its as if you can't see that supporting the use of torture is only going to drive more people into the arms of radical Islamism. You can't see that Israel's behaviour is driving terrorism. You can't see that the actions of the US and UK governments is radicalising some Muslim youths.

    You're cheering the world onto destruction and it makes me sick.


    people, not just dis, read this twice through and have a think about what you write on here.... (i am)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    update

    How can you compromise?
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Is anyone honestly supprised about this from such a bunch of cunts as the US Government?

    The figureheads in the Whitehouse change. The CIA does not. Let us not forget the CIA armed and funded the Taliban and the Mujhadeen. They have done the same to Fascists in South America. They used a nuke without any *real* need.

    I suppose one way to look at it is now at least they are being OPEN about it. It has been going on since the first got hte people in Guantanamo anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps those few deluded souls who still claim the US government is a force for good or a champion of freedom and human rights would finally like to reconsider...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Meanwhile in Iraq, it's a torture gore fest free-for-all:
    Torture may be worse now in Iraq than under former leader Saddam Hussein, the UN's chief anti-torture expert says.

    "What most people tell you is that the situation as far as torture is concerned now in Iraq is totally out of hand," the Austrian law professor said.

    "The situation is so bad many people say it is worse than it has been in the times of Saddam Hussein," he added.

    The UN report says detainees' bodies often show signs of beating using electrical cables, wounds in heads and genitals, broken legs and hands, electric and cigarette burns.

    Bodies found at the Baghdad mortuary "often bear signs of severe torture including acid-induced injuries and burns caused by chemical substances".

    Many bodies have missing skin, broken bones, back, hands and legs, missing eyes, missing teeth and wounds caused by power drills or nails, the UN report says.

    Victims come from prisons run by US-led multinational forces as well as by the ministries of interior and defence and private militias, the report said.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5368360.stm


    With this background in mind, it's nice to see the leader of the free world doing his bit to eradicate torture from the face of the earth:

    Geneva Convention "vague" says Bush

    How proud his supporters must be.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And yet the cunt will never be given the war crimes trial he deserves.

    Spreading Freedom my arse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Psychological torture has apparently been proved to be the most effective, therefore surely the most unpleasant.

    American authorities are such hypocritical wankers, they condemn such 'human rights abuse' in other countries, when they would readily do the same to foreigners. fucking imbeciles, man, wish they'd just fuck off and leave the rest of the world to it. They do nothing but cause trouble.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As there were thousands of Nazis intent on harming the British people there are now thousands of Islamists - many of these thousands even within our borders who are intent on the mass murder of British civilians.

    Please don't tell me you just compared Muslims to Nazis....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Please don't tell me you just compared Muslims to Nazis....

    Can you not read or something?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, you made a fatuous comparison. Well done.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Yes, you made a fatuous comparison. Well done.

    Some people have a poor command of the English language.

    Read it again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, I just read it. You made an utterly fatuous comparison about numbers of people, using the Nazis as an example. Pathetic.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Yes, I just read it. You made an utterly fatuous comparison about numbers of people, using the Nazis as an example. Pathetic.

    Presumably then you entirely reject the fact that there were once Nazis threatening Britain and that there are now Islamists threatening Britain. My 'comparison' did not go any further than that...I cannot really see what there is to dispute about such a well established fact.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You used the Nazis as a fatuous comparison and got pulled up about it. Get over it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    You used the Nazis as a fatuous comparison and got pulled up about it. Get over it.

    Except the so called comparison did not go beyond stating that the Nazis were once a threat and now the Islamists are a threat which is more a simple fact than a comparative analysis of Islamism and Nazism...

    You're clutching at straws Blagsta. :wave:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You mentioned Nazis unneccessarily as some sort of idiotic comparison and got pulled up on it. Admit it, get over it, move on.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Influenzia also threatened Britains in the 1920's. Who gives a fuck? You're comparing Muslims to Nazis deliberately there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Animal Liberation Front is a threat to Britain. I guess you can compare them to the Nazis too...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The French were once a threat, the Vikings were once a threat etc. You used Nazis as a deliberate comparison dis. Have the balls to admit it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    The Animal Liberation Front is a threat to Britain.

    Are they fuck. A bunch of misanthropic losers a threat to Britain? Get a grip Aladdin.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    The Animal Liberation Front is a threat to Britain. I guess you can compare them to the Nazis too...

    Don't we often do so?
Sign In or Register to comment.