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Did internment and torture of IRA suspects help in Northern Ireland?
I've looked it up. IIRC, there was a thread on here about it at the time.
Yes, there is a number of British Islamists. You however have a tendency to overstate the threat because you have an agenda to push.
I don't have any agenda, a threat exists and I can admit that - the liberal left seem to have trouble accepting the fact that within the Muslim community there's a huge minority committed to barbaric and backward ideals. To divert talk of this fact to false and baseless accusations is quite typical of you.
But I dont think anyone is saying it isnt there, it is the scale of the threat and how we deal with it which are the issues.
Are internment and torture really good ideas in what is basically a 'war' of PR?
Same with KKK, they are radical minority, but large also in numbers in their given areas, ergo, extremists who are not representitive of Christianity and white people, yet there none the less.
You do hav an agenda dis - to exagerrate the threat of Muslim extremism. You do it all the time on here. Something to do with justifying your support for the actions of Israel at a guess.
But don't we all have agendas in that case?
I assume you are talking about the KKK as an organisation in a historical sense? While they still exist today in some form I don't think they number more than a few hundred fruitcakes.
But Dis is pretty open about the fact he's right-wing (look at his avatar) and from his posts it obvious that he's hostile to militant Islam, whether thats in the UK or in the Middle East. I'm just not sure why you are singling him out as being either having some agenda or being secretive or dishonest about his politics
Oh, and I'm not "singling him out" - I say the same thing to others. As you're well aware.
You make that claim unsurprisingly with nothing to support it. I always emphasise the term minority - however, unfortunately that minority within Islam is a large one. I point that out. Are you too thick to see how that differs from branding all Muslims as extremists?
Likewise I distinguish between the many decent and hardworking Muslims and those in the backward minority supporting forced marriages, honour killings, homophobia, anti-Semitism and terrorism. The behaviour of the latter is clearly incompatible with a civilised society, I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out. Many apologists on the far-left it seems have no qualms about cosying up with the Muslim equivalent of the BNP and NF. (See Ken welcoming the fundamentalist cleric, the Respect Party and the Stop the War Coalition). I would hope you have more principles than George Galloway and co.
Your posting record speaks for itself.
No you don't dis.
I wish you could be a little bit more honest with yourself dis.
You overstate the threat dis.
Ken far left? Get a grip. Oh and btw - I've been fairly vocal in condemning Galloway et al on here. I've also been fairly vocal in condemnding Islamist extremism. You however seem intent on overstating it for some reason - reasons I suspect to be to do with your unquestioning support of Israel.
You state that "worryingly high percentages of Muslims hold some very extreme views". Its 6% dis. That is not "worryingly high" in anyone's book - unless you have an agenda to push. Why not state it as 94% don't think that the 7/7 bombers are acting according to true Islam? Its because you'd rather overstate the threat.
I think when you look at it like that you realise how minimal the threat really is, I was speaking to my friend last night and he was saying he can't believe we're not being bombed everyday in London, the way the media and government would have us believe we're under siege or something........fact is I'm more likely to be in a road accident, so its time to get on with life and let the intelligence services handle whatever little threat there is, like that pesky chap menezes.
Pardon? Read dis's posts - I've already given an example of where he twists a poll result to his own ends. How you can accuse me of smearing him for that, I really don't understand.
Well I've just pointed out one example. I can go through the rest of your posts if you like.
I repeat - I've already pointed out one example of you exaggeratting.
I brought Israel into it because I was thinking about why you feel the need to overstate the threat from Islam. The only reason I can think of is because of your support for Israels policies of near genocide in Gaza, your support of their indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon and your exagerration of the threat to Israel from its Islamic neighbours. If you brand Islam as a religion of extremism and violence then you're justified in your support of the indiscriminate murder of Palestinians and others who may (or may not) support groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah.
6% of over 1.5 million people is a huge number. Or can't you do the maths?
And 6% wasn't the only worryingly high percentage.
See the December 9th - December 19th 2005 poll from the Times on the Populus website.
My bold -
There's about 1.5m Muslims in the UK - thats 90,000 people who believe that the 7/7 terrorists were following the true principles of Islam and 195,000 who believe they should be considered martyrs. Given that it only takes a few people to make and then plant a series of bombs on the underground I'd agree with Dis and say 90,000 people who basically say they were right is an enormous number of people. Even if only 1% decide that they too will want to follow the 'true principles of Islam' that's still 900 people.
So who's twisting what here? Is Dis twisting a poll or are you twisting his words?
Yes, I can do maths, thanks for your concern.
6% is not a high percentage. 6 out of 100 is quite low. What was that about maths? Yes, I'm aware it amounts to 90,000 people. However, i94% (now that is a high percentage) don't think that the 7/7 bombers are true Muslims. That amounts to 1,410,000 people.
People in polls often answer untruthfully or exaggerate to make a point. Anyway, even if they all answered truthfully with no exagerration - so what? People can believe what the hell they like. What % do you think are likely to act on those beliefs? See, its the fact that you concentrate on only one interpretation of things like this that leads me to think you have an agenda.
Yes, I remember it - there was a thread on it here iirc.
Pretty worrying don't you think?
He is being rather contradictory there. He is saying its a high percentage (it isn't), then claiming that its "only" 6%, then getting worried about how many people it is. Yes, its a lot of people - but its a small proportion of people who believe that. So what if they believe it? They can believe whatever the hell they like. Are 90,000 people likely to act on it? Are the 1,410,000 people who don't believe that the 7/7 bombers are true Muslims going to have any influence? These are the things we should be discussing, not getting hysterical about the results of opinion polls.
btw, if anyone is interested, here's the complete poll
http://www.populuslimited.com/pdf/2006_07_04_Times_ITV.pdf
and a summary
http://www.populuslimited.com/poll_summaries/2006_07_04_Times_ITV.htm
Its not good that people believe that. But people can believe whatever they like. Its whether they're likely to act on it that is the proper subject of debate.
If 37% of British Muslims believe the Jewish community in Britain are 'legitimate' targets that is very serious.
Whether it's 6% or 60% doesn't matter - it's the actual number of people holding those views that shapes the threat. Were there only 1000 Muslims in Britain then 600 people would not pose a huge threat - but 6% of 1.5 million equates to a lot of people holding some very extreme views. (And 37% is well frightening).
Really? Where do you get that figure from?