Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Read the community guidelines before posting ✨

Muslim anger at vatican

245678

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    *Yawn* i am already tired of this story! I think everyone in the world needs to get a grip. So what if the Pope said anything...he didnt tell Catholics to go out and kill Muslims did he? I think everyone on all sides is over reacting and behaving in just the stereotypical ways each side views the other side.

    Why are there even sides...surely if you believe in God and the belief in good, you cannot possibly do murderous or violent things anyway...so clearly the message is being lost somewhere.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    No different than all the other coerced "education" throughout the ages; and modern day state education.

    Indoctrination by another name.

    I think it was the Jesuits who used to say "Give me the child and I`ll give you the man".

    What the fuck are you on about you silly little man?

    Dis-no matter what situation you always find a way to bring the Israeli-Palestinian issue in. Get a grip!

    And for anyone who slags off Catholics, it's not our fault the hierarchy is corrupt, there's millions of good decent Catholics who arguable are the most fervent believers in the world so stop slagging them off.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I love the way you get all outraged at stuff like that, yet support Israel's murder and starvation of Palestinians.
    Not to mention the IDFs threats and sieges against those very churches a couple of years ago... :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I love the way you get all outraged at stuff like that, yet support Israel's murder and starvation of Palestinians.

    Read my post and tell me where I was 'outraged'. Unfortunately anybody familiar with the behaviour of so many Palestinians finds it hard to feel outrage or surprise when they show how religiously tolerant they are. There are exceptions of course but the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinians remain one of the most violent, homophobic and anti-Semitic terrorist groups on the planet.

    I do not support murder or starvation and the State of Israel is guilty of either but I do condemn Israel where appropriate.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It would be nice if you acknowledged Israel's murderous behaviour occasionally. Instead, you appear to wholeheartedly support it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    More recent news....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5353850.stm
    Absolutely sick.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5353208.stm
    I don't see why he should be saying sorry, he has done nothing wrong.

    "two churches in the West Bank were attacked with firebombs in what was believed to be a reaction to the Bavaria speech."

    Muslims peace loving?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Muslims peace loving?


    Some are, some aren't. Same as any other group of people really.

    I wish people would learn to distinguish between Islam and Islamism.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Some are, some aren't. Same as any other group of people really.

    I wish people would learn to distinguish between Islam and Islamism.
    Distinguish them then right here....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Islam is a religion with many different adherents and lots of different strands within it. Islamism is a political movement based on a fundamentalist intepretation of Islam.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Islam is a religion with many different adherents and lots of different strands within it. Islamism is a political movement based on a fundamentalist intepretation of Islam.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism
    Wouldn't these 'peace loving Muslims' killing innocent nuns argue they are part of Islam, not Islamism?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, I'm sure they would. They'd argue they are the "true" Muslims. Much the same way as those Christian nutters who bomb abortion clinics or who run the God hates fags website would claim to be "true" Christians. Most other people can see the distinction however.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Yes, I'm sure they would. They'd argue they are the "true" Muslims. Much the same way as those Christian nutters who bomb abortion clinics or who run the God hates fags website would claim to be "true" Christians. Most other people can see the distinction however.
    Not only do these so called 'peace loving Muslims' believe in what the Christain nutters are doing but they also believe that they have a right to kill non muslims and those who criticise their prophet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke, why do you bother debating on here if you're just going to completely ignore other people's points? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    luke, why do you bother debating on here if you're just going to completely ignore other people's points? :confused:
    What have I ignored?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My point about the distinction between Muslims and Islamists.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you listen to the Popes apology I think it is well written, it basically says I'm sorry if you mistook what I said out of context, rather than I'm sorry I did wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    What have I ignored?
    :rolleyes:
  • Saeed MSaeed M Posts: 270 The Mix Regular
    I don't usually comment on these threads because they make my blood boil, but I'll say something this once.
    luke88 wrote:
    More recent news....

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/5353850.stm
    Absolutely sick.

    ...


    "two churches in the West Bank were attacked with firebombs in what was believed to be a reaction to the Bavaria speech."

    That is absolutely sick, disgusting and inexcusable, and every Muslim I know who has heard about those incidents has condemned them.

    Muslim leaders have condemned every terrorist atrocity that has happened in the name of Islam.

    On my part I have given a talk at my local church on the Sunday after 9/11, have signed written condemnations sent to local papers and reiterated my community's sentiments to the Bishop of London in a private meeting at his office in mid-June.

    Just because the media doesn't convey every condemnation to your home it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
    luke88 wrote:
    Muslims peace loving?

    It is exactly this type of comment and generalisation that leads to many Muslims feeling marginalised.

    This view lead to me being called Bin-Laden and threatened with violence by total strangers as I was walking to my parked car (luckily some people from a nearby pub came to my rescue) not to mention people moving away from me on the tube after 7/7.

    It is also because of this viewpoint that many completely normal, innocent (Muslim) people are afraid to say the 'B word' (bomb) or the 'J word' (jihad) whilst talking about news events inside their own homes in case their house is stormed by the police.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    although i am not religious in any sense,i feel both parties are in the wrong, the pope for saying it, but their reactions to things are always so extreme which isnt necessary
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I feel that at this point, the Vatican has apologised for any offence it may have unintentionally caused, it now needs those still complaining to show some sense and accept that apology.

    I suspect you will find that those muslims still ranting and complaining make out and out anti christian statements on a fairly regular basis and yet there is no outcry. It's funny how the Vatican is assumed to be in the wrong.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Littleali wrote:
    although i am not religious in any sense,i feel both parties are in the wrong, the pope for saying it, but their reactions to things are always so extreme which isnt necessary

    When you say 'they' - I hope you mean extremeists, rather than muslims....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Either the new Pope is a troublemaker or just very nieve.

    He should be smart enough to know that everyone one of his words would be picked apart by the media of the entire world

    1. Because he is the pope and leader of so many
    2. Because he was born a German and people still haven't forgotten the terror and violence his home nation brought to the world in WWII.

    He's trying to get out of what he said by stating he's quoting someone from centuries back, well what's the point in having a living Pope in the first place if they can't speak for themselves instead of having to quote people from the past that many centuries ago.

    He seems to lose out on two fronts, the by quoting someone from centuries back who said Muhammed was evil, but what about those who killed on the crusades to spread christianity across the world or the Nazi's from his home country and their violence?

    He's simply should have steered well clear of the subject and if he really wanted to touch upon it he should have used his own words not quoted from someone else long dead.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He's simply should have steered well clear of the subject and if he really wanted to touch upon it he should have used his own words not quoted from someone else long dead.

    Well since he's been in academia for much of his life quoting past thinkers is a pretty normal thing to do...:rolleyes:

    The Pope isn't in the wrong here. Those in the wrong are the thousands of Muslims who lack the ability to distinguish between personal remarks and quotations. However, even if the remarks made were the Pope's own personal views that would still not have justified the response of many Muslims. The view that Islam or the main strands within it are incompatible with freedom of speech is quickly gaining credence. In both the cartoons controversy and recent events with the Pope the 'mainstream' Muslim Council of Britain has not defended freedom of speech merely demanding apologies and making only very muted criticism of violent Islamist responses.

    Going further back the backwardness of the Muslim Council of Britain is evident from a BBC programme where Iqbal Sacranie was reported as saying with regards to Salman Rushdie:
    "Death, perhaps, is a bit too easy for him?"

    If that is not bad enough Sacranie goes as far as rejecting free speech; if even this supposedly moderate Muslim cannot accept free speech – a fundamental part of our democracy what do the extremists think?
    John Ware: Today you still believe that if 'Satanic Verses' was published again, you would expect the government of the day to put pressure on the publishers to withdraw it?
    Sir Iqbal Sacranie: Well I...
    John Ware: Would you?
    Sir Iqbal Sacranie: There is no...
    John Ware: But would you?
    Sir Iqbal Sacranie: There is no law at the moment, sadly, that would enable me to pursue with a legal course of.. of seeking its withdrawal.

    BBC link.

    Plenty of gay people thought the last Pope spoke a lot of nonsense with regard to homosexuality – and the last Pope was speaking for himself, he wasn’t quoting anybody. Yet I don’t think any gay people murdered nuns and I doubt there were burning effigies in Brighton. Recent events are really showing how under attack free speech is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How many Muslims are actually up in arms about this?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    How many Muslims are actually up in arms about this?
    2,843 exactly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    How many Muslims are actually up in arms about this?

    Reaction.

    In the UK, the Muslim Council of Britain and MPACUK were quick to condemn the Pope...

    The Iranians say the "The Pope's remarks were the latest chain of the crusade against Islam" and that "The Great Satan (United States) is playing its role in this issue..."

    Of course many Muslims are indifferent or merely keeping their views private - but you surely cannot deny that the reaction of many other Muslims is pretty different to how other groups offended by the Pope have behaved?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It looks like the usual self appointed leaders getting themselves some publicity.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    It looks like the usual self appointed leaders getting themselves some publicity.

    I'd like to think so but it remains a sad fact that there is a very large minority of Muslims that hold some extremely warped views. Even amongst British Muslims as the research by Populus displayed there is some very worrying stuff. The cartoons controversy showed that a huge number of Muslims even in this country don't respect freedom of expression.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    And that is a very important point here, and why I am very glad that the Pope hasn't retracted his speech. It would be a sad state of affairs if academic teaching and free speech were to become limited as a result of the short sightedness and double standards of some religious extremists.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ..

    The Pope isn't in the wrong here.

    The Pope has a duty to know when to open his mouth and when to keep it shut... what to say and what not to say.

    If he started quoting speeches from Hitler against the Jews would that be appropriate?

    To quote someone who lived over 600 years ago and say...

    "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman,..."


    Is not exactly going to endear him to the 20% or so of the world's population who are Muslim.

    And as pointed out for someone of his age, born of German decent from a time when the Nazi's were in power to go back to Germany and speak of Muhammad being evil is a bit of a cheek when his own countrymen killed an estimated 6 million Jews in concentration camps... and that happened a lot more recently then the person he quoted from 600 years ago.
Sign In or Register to comment.