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If someone collapses
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I think we would all do well perhaps to take a few minutes (stick it iTunes, on your MP3 player, on a cd for the car, whatever) to look at these MP3 podcasts from St John Ambulance. They provide some helpful advice for what to do if someone collapses.
Links:
http://www.sja.org.uk/firstaid/info/
This link can provide you with MP3 downloads which will take you through basic first aid, with someone who is trained and licensed.
also, DO NOT practice chest compressions on a live human being, you could seriously injure them.
This is a good and helpful summary to be going on with in the meantime, but please take the time to look at these links.
Links:
http://www.sja.org.uk/firstaid/info/
This link can provide you with MP3 downloads which will take you through basic first aid, with someone who is trained and licensed.
also, DO NOT practice chest compressions on a live human being, you could seriously injure them.
scarey monster
If someone collapses through drug or alcohol use (or any other unknown reason) you should put them in the recovery position and dial 999.
For those that don't know what the recovery positions is, lie them on their side with a knee pulled forward to keep them there and lift the chin slightly to get a good airway, it should look like if the were standing up they were looking towards the ceiling.
This is a good and helpful summary to be going on with in the meantime, but please take the time to look at these links.
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Comments
I think its very useful to know, thanks!
All manor of other things could be going on which would need doctors help in the body of someone who has used MDMA or other drugs. I've seen it happen.
If someone collapses and they are defitintely out of it then I think the only course of action should be 999.
Sorry bud but I think you are wrong on this one, if you read the guidelines you will see that it is only if a casualty is unconscious and breathing, until the ambulance gets there. There is absolutely nothing wrong with them, under those circumstances it does not matter whether its drugs or alcohool or anything else, all you are doing is keeping the airway clear, supporting life.
yes this correct but if they arent breathing they have three minutes before you'll need an undertaker not a Dr. You need to keep oxygen going round there body until medical help arrives, and no-where did I indicate that this is a substitute for medical assistance.
There is no distinction between substances, you treat what you see leave the rest to clinical staff.
The acronym differs depending who has trained you but the principal is the same, and no, the rate 15 breaths to 2 compressions. If you are arguing about the rescue breaths at the outset there is still arguement for this because initial rescue breaths before compressions may dislodge a blockage you cannot see from the windpipe.
Not being funny but can we please not confuse people, if there's something you think is seriously wrong or dangerous then PM me and I gladly change it.
this however was a good point, i typed this up in word and missed a block of text (shhould have read more carefully) so thanks for pointing that out, you might not have to do anything if you can get a response.
Do read closely now! Saves you from looking daft.
Especially when it comes from someone wih the custom title of 'Minister of Disinformation'.
You'd never intentionally give us erroneous information on dealing with unconcious victims, would you Martin?
I asked for verification because some replies indicated that the information wasn't entirely up to date, or wasn't specifically aimed for drug related incidents. I wasn't saying he was wrong, but there is no reason not to challenge information, it gives th OP the chance to prove they are right.
Acronyms are what you make of them, and C for circulation will be of more use to the people needing this than C for CPR.
Scarey Monster; Thank you for you PM, your revisions were great and would have been entirely helpful (as were some of Rachie's).
Unfortunately looking at the post for various reasons I think that this post will do more harm than good in terms of confusing people. Therefore, I encourage everyone to go to the St John's Link to get some MP3's for your iPod or whatever.
They are very good.
LJ; yes understandably you want this verified, but if you listened to the MP3's everything would be verified almost verbatum.
In conclusion the pricipals of what I posted were all fine, there was nothing dangerous and everything in there has proven to be effective. Where the confusion arose was that there have recently been updates to the Resus guidelines which I haven't had chance to read yet. As I have said before I am a first aider not a trainer.
The point is this; most of us aren't clinical practicioners and as such the physiological treatment of the effects of many drugs are something that, as you rightly point out, should be left to professionals. However, life support is about keeping the basic fundamentals to sustain human life going until such help arrives, and this need transcends the conditions of injury.
Would have been clearer if didn't start Martin!
The audio stuff is really good though, listen to it, you never know you could save a life, and it could be someone you love, or don't even know.
I feel strongly on this, I know that there is nothing more terriying that having someone collapse, and also know that anything you do along the lines of the above will help, it's not the fine details that matter in the long run.
It must be very frightening, and I think everyone should have basic first aid training at least. St John's Ambulance do very good basic courses if you want to be sure about what you are doing.
There are actually other suppliers which teach the same course for about half the money, St Johns and the Red Cross are a bit of a rip off.
Yes, if they are still breathing etc. do the recovery position, but you MUST also phone 999 because any number of really nasty things could also have happened from blood clots to internal bleeding.
there are cowboys out there.
In most cases you would never give a casualty anything to eat. That includes eggs.
If you are doing the basic courses, appointed persons or the first aid at work, which are the two normal ones then there are loads of companies which can offer the set course for less money. It pays to shop around.
In the true manner of sound advice-giving of these boards, it would be great if anyone could provide evidence to back up why the recovery position shouldn't be used on someone who's collapsed after taking drugs.
Meanwhile, here's TheSite's own Drugs first aid guide.
What I meant, and I thought I had made clear in my second post was that its not good enough by itself if the person has used drugs (and probably if they have just used alcohol just to be on the safe side).
If someone collaspses from over drink then the likelyhood is they will pass out and as long as in the recovery position be fine. Providing of course they havent drunk way too much at which point they are at risk of OD.
However, with drugs (mostly the harder sort, I dont mean cannabis in this) there are a myriad of other things which could go wrong. Just putting them in the recovery position and hoping they will 'sleep it off' is dangerous, they could have any number of nasty things wrong with them with require urgent care.
And while I fully accept that recreational drug use is relatively safe (if done with respect to the chemicals used) I've seen someone who collasped and should have died (A&E staff didnt know why not) so I know personally that it does happen.
If someone collapses through drug or alcohol use (or any other unknown reason) you should put them in the recovery position and dial 999.
For those that don't know what the recovery positions is, lie them on their side with a knee pulled forward to keep them there and lift the chin slightly to get a good airway, it should look like if the were standing up they were looking towards the ceiling.
It bugs me to do so, but yes, I agree.
I dont really like agreeing with Martin, its too simple (or is it him that is simple?) and it somehow doesnt feel like.