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FAO those who think Israel's actions have been justified & proportioned

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Double post. Delete.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Iran has declared war on the rest of the world




    Hezbollah’s attack last week represents the opening salvo in Iran’s war against the West — and anyone else who stands in its way.
    Douglas Davis, a former senior editor on the Jerusalem Post, is a member of the Middle East Writers’ Group
    brilliant bit of propoganda!
    so we now have excuse and reason for nuking iran.
    what did i say about four hundred posts back ...iraq in flames and turmoil in the east ...lebanon the same in the west.
    the PNAC IS COMING ALONG WELL.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    The British Jewish community is overall broadly very supportive of Israel however. That there are some extremely vocal Jewish critics of Israel is mainly explained by them being part of the far-left. Nobody in the West hates Israel more than the left. And anyway the views of Harold Pinter on Israel are no more valid because he happens to be Jewish.

    Yeah. I near that British Nazis and Facists are holding a big Pro-Israel prade in London soon.:p
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Yeah. I near that British Nazis and Facists are holding a big Pro-Israel prade in London soon.:p

    The far-right like the far-left despise Israel. :confused: You really do talk shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Israel has the right to defend itself. Israel has been provoked into conflict. If the British fired thousands of missiles into Spain from Gibraltar I doubt you'd expect the Spanish to sit around and do nothing. Hezbollah started this and the best way of ending it is with Hezbollah being dismantled.
    Never mind how many times you say it. Israel has no right to deliberately target civilians for revenge and retaliations. Do not mix up such acts with "defending itself". The destruction of entire neighbourhoods has fuck all to do with self defence. And you know it.

    Incidentally, it was Israel that started raining missiles and bombs on Lebanon after the kidnappings. And if you really think Hezbollah has launched 'thousands' of rockets into Israel, how many missiles, shells and bombs do you think Israel has dropped into Lebanon at the same time? Tens of thousands for sure, if not hundreds of thousands.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    The far-right like the far-left despise Israel. :confused: You really do talk shit.
    Nobody in the West hates Israel more than the left.

    :confused: To be fair, I think the far right hate them more. Far, far, more.

    Even Stalin, notorious for persecuting Jews, supported the creation of Israel. I doubt Hitler would have.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Now Israel kills 4 UN officials
    Four United Nations peacekeepers have been killed in an Israeli air strike on an observation post in southern Lebanon, the UN has said.

    UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said he was "shocked" at the "apparently deliberate targeting" of the post.

    The UN in Lebanon says the Israeli air force destroyed the observer post, in which four military observers were sheltering.

    It said the four, from Austria, Canada, China and Finland, had taken shelter in a bunker under the post after it was earlier shelled 14 times by Israeli artillery.

    A rescue team was also shelled as it tried to clear the rubble.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5215366.stm

    Well I guess it makes sense. If there's any chance observers might report you're committing murder and war crimes, better get rid of them fast.

    Any thoughts on this "self-defence" act Disillusioned?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I wonder is this was one of the 5-tonne bombs Israel had urged the US to rush them? How proud Americans must be...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I hope this thread gets shut down, it's just going round and round.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    I hope this thread gets shut down, it's just going round and round.

    Nothing stop ya from not reading it mate...

    The war isn't over yet and some new info are posted everyday...

    I hope this thread stay, it is an excellent reading...
  • SkiveSkive Posts: 15,282 Skive's The Limit
    A bit off topic, but whilst looking for clips of Death In Gaza on youtube I came across this...

    Tel Rumeida
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Tel+Rumeida&search_type=search_videos&search=Search

    Some very intresting videos. With kids on both sides being taught so much hate, how can we realistically expect peace any time in the near future?
    Weekender Offender 
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nothing stop ya from not reading it mate...

    The war isn't over yet and some new info are posted everyday...

    I hope this thread stay, it is an excellent reading...


    You, sir, fail to see my point which was that the arguments about the justification are getting old and that said arguants need to come up with some new ones. In short, stop hitting each other with sticks, one of y'all grab a baseball bat and beat the other one into submission!! ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    You, sir, fail to see my point which was that the arguments about the justification are getting old and that said arguants need to come up with some new ones. In short, stop hitting each other with sticks, one of y'all grab a baseball bat and beat the other one into submission!! ;)

    Welcome to thesite P&D :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If everyone agreed on everything the thread would not be a debate- though it would still be a useful vehicle for commenting on news and developments.

    But incredibly there are one or two people who still claim the actions of Israel are "justified". So there will be debate for some time yet- unless those people suddenly opened their eyes/developed a conscience (delete as appropriate).

    Nah. The thread is good. If you think it is tedious to have this rambling on for so many days, think of the innocent people in the Middle East who have had to put up with bombs for this long.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    If everyone agreed on everything the thread would not be a debate- though it would still be a useful vehicle for commenting on news and developments.

    But incredibly there are one or two people who still claim the actions of Israel are "justified". So there will be debate for some time yet- unless those people suddenly opened their eyes/developed a conscience (delete as appropriate).

    Nah. The thread is good. If you think it is tedious to have this rambling on for so many days, think of the innocent people in the Middle East who have had to put up with bombs for this long.

    Tell you what, you guys give me a few bucks and I'll get rid of the "infidels". ;)

    To put a new spin on this thread though....
    Think about people and their personality, think about factors that influence your life and form your outlook on life and general opinions.

    Most of the times the way you think is pre-programmed.
    A person living in Tel Aviv hit by suicide bombings will have a different outlook than a person in Montana breeding horses or something.
    A person brought up in the City will have a different outlook from the person brought up in the country.
    Do you see what I mean?

    What to me or you might seem logical, it's possibly very illogical to someone else.
    If someone is so convinced that he or she are right, there must be a reason for that. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, but everyone's got an opinion. That's why it's so hard to be objective, look at the situation from both sides of view and then use all the facts at hand to make a decision.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5215366.stm

    Israel have bombed UN Peacekeepers now.....

    Action against Israels military and leaders Now.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5215366.stm

    Israel have bombed UN Peacekeepers now.....

    Action against Israels military and leaders Now.

    Al's already posted a post about this....

    Anyway, the UN are idiots, after those 2 ambulances were hit the other day, i would forbid anyone to go out into the areas being bombed!! And demand a large force to get into the area and position itself on the lebanon-israel border!!
    I thought it would have been obvious that they wouldn't be safe!!!
    Those are unnecessary deaths.
    It pisses me off.:mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    You, sir, fail to see my point which was that the arguments about the justification are getting old and that said arguants need to come up with some new ones. In short, stop hitting each other with sticks, one of y'all grab a baseball bat and beat the other one into submission!! ;)
    very much like the reality the israelis have created in the middle east.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote:
    A bit off topic, but whilst looking for clips of Death In Gaza on youtube I came across this...

    Tel Rumeida
    http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Tel+Rumeida&search_type=search_videos&search=Search

    Some very intresting videos. With kids on both sides being taught so much hate, how can we realistically expect peace any time in the near future?
    what a crazy place ...worse than the bleedin' irish!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    Tell you what, you guys give me a few bucks and I'll get rid of the "infidels". ;)

    To put a new spin on this thread though....
    Think about people and their personality, think about factors that influence your life and form your outlook on life and general opinions.

    Most of the times the way you think is pre-programmed.
    A person living in Tel Aviv hit by suicide bombings will have a different outlook than a person in Montana breeding horses or something.
    A person brought up in the City will have a different outlook from the person brought up in the country.
    Do you see what I mean?

    What to me or you might seem logical, it's possibly very illogical to someone else.
    If someone is so convinced that he or she are right, there must be a reason for that. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong, but everyone's got an opinion. That's why it's so hard to be objective, look at the situation from both sides of view and then use all the facts at hand to make a decision.
    Well people of London have been at the receiving end of bombs for decades and nobody called for the mass bombing of Catholic neighbourhoods of Belfast.

    IMO what's right is right, and what's wrong is wrong. Deliberate targetting of civilians can never be justified- on either side.

    Now, if one believes in 'an eye for an eye', fair enough. But anyone who believes the Israeli government is justified in engaging in such tactics that cannot claim at the same time that Israel is a civilised nation. It is not. It is a brutal, terrorist state every bit as bad as the terrorists it fights. They're all one and the same.

    And as soon as the one or two people here who justify targetting civilians on purpose are prepared to admit that we can all move forward a bit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    migpilot wrote:
    Al's already posted a post about this....

    Anyway, the UN are idiots, after those 2 ambulances were hit the other day, i would forbid anyone to go out into the areas being bombed!! And demand a large force to get into the area and position itself on the lebanon-israel border!!
    I thought it would have been obvious that they wouldn't be safe!!!
    Those are unnecessary deaths.
    It pisses me off.:mad:
    I find it extraordinary that you choose to blame the victims rather than their murderers.

    Remember, Israel has the technology to carry out pinpoint selective attacks. It also has one of the best intelligences in the world. That's what they keep telling us when they attempt to justify firing missiles into moving cars in Gaza that are alleged to carry Hamas militants.

    The post in question had been there for years. Israel knew it was an UN post. It was a deliberate killing.

    And of course the same goes for ambulances. Nothing new though- there have been countless incidents over the years of Israel bombing ambulances and Red Cross vehicles. A bigger war crime you'd be unlikely to find.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The British Jewish community is overall broadly very supportive of Israel however. That there are some extremely vocal Jewish critics of Israel is mainly explained by them being part of the far-left. Nobody in the West hates Israel more than the left.
    Like these people you mean?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story/0,,1829983,00.html

    All self-hating Jews and lefties, obviously.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I find it extraordinary that you choose to blame the victims rather than their murderers.

    Remember, Israel has the technology to carry out pinpoint selective attacks. It also has one of the best intelligences in the world. That's what they keep telling us when they attempt to justify firing missiles into moving cars in Gaza that are alleged to carry Hamas militants.

    The post in question had been there for years. Israel knew it was an UN post. It was a deliberate killing.

    And of course the same goes for ambulances. Nothing new though- there have been countless incidents over the years of Israel bombing ambulances and Red Cross vehicles. A bigger war crime you'd be unlikely to find.

    Well kick me in the crotch, spit on my neck and call me Judy!!:thumb:

    Why do you keep misreading my posts?

    I don't blame the victims. Hell no! The Isreaeli Tomahawk is probably to blame.
    Yes it was deliberate. (same for the ambulances)

    What I am saying, if me and you know that Israelis will behave in this manner, why doesn't the UN know it and put their people in a safe place. I know that the IDF is gonna bomb South Beirut every day, so I'd keep my ass out of there. Simple as.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    very much like the reality the israelis have created in the middle east.

    I am glad someone noticed the irony.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This gets better by the hour:
    Israel troops 'ignored' UN plea

    UN peacekeepers in south Lebanon contacted Israeli troops 10 times before an Israeli bomb killed four of them, an initial UN report says.
    The post was hit by a precision-guided missile after six hours of shelling, diplomats familiar with the probe say.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5217176.stm

    Accident my fucking arse.

    No content with deliberately murdering innocent civilians, now they are murdering UN officials as well.

    Condy should count herself lucky she wasn't blown to pieces herself when she visited Beirut the other day.

    Not that is news to anyone, but the Israeli government and its armed forces are murdering lunatics out of control and they need to be stopped by any means necessary.

    I have always said military force should not be used on Israel (or anyone else) unless there is a critical, potentially catastrophic situation. For the very first time ever, I'm starting to believe we're reaching that point.

    It'd be a tragedy because it would mean more innocent deaths. But the IDF is in all effects a rabid dog out of control running through a busy street and attacking anyone on sight.

    Surgical attacks might just about be justificed now. Not if Israel stops this lunacy right away, but I doubt they will.

    What sad times we live in.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Israel expresses deep regret at UN deaths.

    It is premature to comment until there has been a complete and proper investigation. Although I do think it is extremely unlikely that out of malice Israel deliberately targeted UN observers. From a PR move these deaths are catastrophic for Israel and the sole beneficiaries will be Hamas and Hezbollah terrorists. Whoever is responsible, whether there has been a mistake here or something more sinister - they will and they must be punished. Even before the Hezbollah orchestrated escalation dozens of UN workers were getting killed every year in Lebanon, they do an extremely dangerous job - they do not need the danger of fatal mistakes to add to the overwhelming threat of terrorism. Israel does not want to be in Lebanon or Gaza, Israel left these areas long ago with no intention of returning. I'm hoping the soldiers are released, Hezbollah is dismantled and the missile attacks stop – when that happens I'll be the first to call for Israel to get out.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you have any condemnation for Iran, Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah for starting this Aladdin? Funny how Hezbollah had thousands of missiles stockpiled, I wonder when they started planning this escalation in the Middle Eastern conflict with their Iranian friends...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you support the deliberate murder of civilians then?

    And before you reply, bear in mind that I'm talking about the targetting of entire Beirut neighbourhoods or Red Cross ambulances- not of all the operations Israel is conducting.

    Seeing as Israel doesn't make a distinction of who it kills and hasn't got even the smallest concerns for civilians or international law, it should stop all violence immediately. At the same time as Hezbollah, sure, but immediately. The return of the soldiers, and the dismantlement of Hizbollah can then be discussed.

    Enough murders already.

    Incidentally, I'm sure Hezbollah must be thinking "when Israel stops launching tens of thousands (soon to reach six figures surely) of bombs, shells and missiles on the entire country we will stop firing our rockets at them". Just as you do.

    That's another reason why there must be an immediate stop to the hostilities by both sides. No ifs, no buts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you have any condemnation for Iran, Syria, Hamas and Hezbollah for starting this Aladdin? Funny how Hezbollah had thousands of missiles stockpiled, I wonder when they started planning this escalation in the Middle Eastern conflict with their Iranian friends...
    You got any proof of that? Or just the accusations of the Israeli PM and his American chums to go by?

    Incidentally, it wasn't Hezbollah that started to indiscriminately bomb Israel. The rockets were a response to Israel's attack.

    Perhaps you should ask yourself whether publicly declaring "we're going to turn the clock back 20 years on Lebanon" and "they're going to pay dearly for this" and proceeding to bomb the fuck out of the entire country in revenge for the kidnapping of two soldiers was the right and appropriate thing to do.

    If Israel had behaved like civilised nations do when their citizens or military are attacked or kidnapped the rockets the area wouldn't be in the turmoil it is today.

    But when you get lunatics who apparently are high rank officers in the armed forces issuing order to take down 10 civilian apartment blocks for every rocket that is fired on Israel you know you're not dealing with a civilised nation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another excellent piece from the Spectator pretty much sums up how I feel far more eloquently than any of my posts on here.

    Disproportionate to what?

    The international clamour grows for a ceasefire in the latest Middle East hostilities; Israel seems determined to ignore it as its men and armour gather for what looks like a major incursion into Lebanon; the condemnation of Israel grows ever louder for what is now generally agreed is a “disproportionate” response to Hezbollah provocation. Pause before joining this global consensus (which does not yet include the United States and Great Britain, though both are under increasing pressure to join it). Consider two matters.

    First (and less important), those who are so sure Israel’s response has been “disproportionate” (the buzz word of Israel’s critics) are least able to tell us what a “proportionate” response would have been. When a terrorist group too powerful to be destroyed by its host country (Lebanon) and bent on the destruction of another (Israel) kidnaps your soldiers, kills others in the process, then rains down hundreds of rockets indiscriminately on your towns and cities, what exactly is the “proportionate” response? It is not clear that turning the other cheek or token retaliation quite does the trick. After all, Israel has been restrained during previous Hezbollah provocations, prepared even to trade an inordinate number of terrorist prisoners for a few abducted Israeli soldiers; but that has hardly earned it brownie points with Hezbollah, as the citizens of Haifa and other parts of northern Israel on the receiving end of its rockets can no doubt testify. Those who seek your destruction do not think more kindly of you when you show compromise and compassion; they see both as signs of weakness and redouble their efforts to destroy you.

    Second (and paramount), what exactly would a ceasefire achieve? In the short term, of course, it would stop the civilian death toll on both sides of the border, but especially in Lebanon, where the fatalities and grief have been greatest and where Israel (like America in Iraq) has not done enough to minimise civilian casualties (though let it not be forgotten that Hezbollah places its rockets and terrorist cells in urban areas – using the local population as human shields – precisely because it knows Israel will inevitably kill civilians when it comes to destroy them). But a ceasefire now is likely to mean far more civilian casualties on both sides of the border – and probably far beyond – later.

    It is important to realise the wider significance of what is happening: in the 60-year war to destroy the state of Israel, Iran is now in the lead. Those who used to be in the vanguard of Israel’s destruction – Egypt, Jordon, Saudi Arabia, the PLO – have retired from the field with bloody noses and are even tut-tutting at Shi’ite Hezbollah’s antics, which they fear are also a threat to their Sunni regimes. Now Iran has stepped up to the plate, with Syria in supporting role. It is using Hezbollah in the north and Hamas in the south to fight a proxy war against Israel and it is doing so as part of a wider strategy. In leading the fight against Israel and developing its own nuclear arsenal, Iran is aspiring to become the regional superpower and bidding for the leadership of Political Islam – a leadership it will use to rid the Middle East of Western influence (which requires, among other things, the destruction of Israel) and create a new Shi’ite imperium. No wonder it is not only Israel that is nervous.
    A ceasefire for the sake of it would not deflect Iran from its proxy war with Israel and the West. Tehran would regard it merely as a breathing space to equip Hezbollah with bigger and better missiles that could wreak havoc in a few years’ time in Tel Aviv or even Jerusalem; then we would witness what indiscriminate civilian casualties really look like. Iran and Syria realise that Israel cannot be defeated by mass armies on the battlefield; that way has been tried often and failed every time. Now it faces the worst threat since the nearly fatal 1973 Yom Kippur war from Iranian-backed Islamic terrorists bent on its destruction and armed not just with AK47s and explosives but the latest in rocketry – and the ability to whip up an often fickle and ignorant Western public opinion against its enemy.

    Israel faces the new threat at a time when anti-Israeli sentiment in the West has never been stronger or more strident. A rampant Political Islam headed by an Iran with nuclear ambitions is as much a threat to the West as it is to Israel; but even though Israel is in the frontline against this threat the irony is that it can count on less support than ever from the West, whose political and media elites on the Left and Right are increasingly consumed by rampant hostility to Israel. Those who lead the charge against Israel, of course, come from the same debased intellectual heritage that believed you could negotiate with Hitler and that Stalin was committed to world peace. But for Israel, the soft underbelly of Western opinion is as much a threat as Hezbollah’s rockets.

    Western capitals are rife with the view that, if only a ceasefire to current hostilities can be arranged, the so-called roadmap to a two-state solution can be revived and a peace settlement achieved. Underlying this approach is the belief that Israeli intransigence is the real roadblock to peace. It is a view straight from cloud-cuckoo land. There is no prospect of a peace process worth its name now that Iran and its surrogates are in the driving seat. Neither Iran nor Syria nor Hezbollah nor Hamas believe in the two-state solution; they believe in the destruction of Israel and the humiliation of the West. Those who do believe (to varying degrees) in a two-state solution – Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, PLO – are increasingly marginalised. Yet Western capitals and commentators persist in believing that the old diplomatic game can be revived. It is self-delusion on a massive scale.

    In the current situation, a ceasefire will mean only a lull in hostilities as long as Hezbollah remains a state-within-a-state in Lebanon, the Beirut government remains too weak to dismantle it and Iran-Syria believe they are winning. The military destruction of Hezbollah, of course, is not easy; but the price of not trying could be incalculable: if Hezbollah is not neutered now, it will have to be very soon by whatever it takes, before it is able to commit an unimaginable atrocity with Iran’s help. A continued Israeli assault on Hezbollah is the only practical way to reduce its power and military capability and to make Iran and Syria realise that not everything is going their way in the proxy war they are currently waging; a limited ground intervention by Israel, of the sort which now looks increasingly likely, in addition to aerial bombardment, will be required to destroy underground bunkers and missiles caches. Then we can start to look at longer-term solutions, including an international presence on the Israeli-Lebanese border strong enough to deter Hezbollah from a repeat performance of the past 10 days (unlike the present pathetic UN force) and a government in Beirut strong enough to disarm Hezbollah’s military wing, as it is required to do under UN resolution 1559, which was part of the last “peace” deal.

    Neither of these solutions will be easily arranged; indeed the odds are against them because solutions require goodwill on both sides – and there is precious little goodwill emanating from Tehran these days, a blunt truth that liberal-left commentators in the West seem determined to ignore. So consider this, a speech made last week by the Iranian Parliament Speaker, Gholam-Ali Haddad Adel, which summarises the false narrative being spread across the Islamic world which portrays Israel at the heart of a Western conspiracy against Islam: “England, and then America, wished to have control over the Islamic world, to prevent Muslim unity, and to have control of the oil resources in the Middle East. Therefore, following the Second World War, they established an artificial, false and fictitious state called Israel in this region … They mobilised the racist Zionists, who are not accepted even by many Jews. They came to Palestine and, under the pretext of wrongs supposedly done to them during Second World War, they carried out terrorism, conspiracies, massacres and bloodshed in this region.” Such sentiments are widespread not just in Iran but across the Middle East, thanks to years of state-sponsored propaganda along similar lines. They are hardly mood music for a revived peace process.

    Indeed, with Iran and its proxies now in the driving seat, the so-called “roadmap to peace” is dead in the water, however much Western politicians try to pump life into it. Six years ago, Israeli pulled out of southern Lebanon, handing back what had been a buffer zone; the land was immediately seized by Hezbollah and used as a launch pad for attacks. Israel’s unilateral withdrawal last year from the Gaza Strip, where the army evicted 8,000 Israeli settlers, has been repaid in similar kind (rockets and abduction) by Hamas. Instead of pocketing their gains and beginning a new peace process which would bring more, Hamas and Hezbollah have interpreted Israel’s retreats as a sign of weakness and used them as a springboard to renewed hostilities. There is no peace in this process.

    Indeed there are only signs that Iran is now fighting on a broad front. Prime Minister Tony Blair said last week that the missiles supplied by Iran to Hamas and Hezbollah (via Syria) are “very similar if not identical to those used against British troops in Basra”; thus did he make explicit something the British military has known – but dared not say – for over a year now: that Iranian munitions are killing British troops in the south of Iraq. The British and Israeli armies are being struck with arms made from the same Iranian factories. Iran is fighting a proxy war not just on the border of southern Lebanon but on the borders of southern Iraq.

    Largely because of the mess that is Iraq, the West is not yet of a mind to see the wider threat that events on the Israel-Lebanon border represent, much less is it prepared to respond. But, as Iran evolves into the undisputed regional superpower and its proxies wreak havoc on Israel and the West, there will have to be a belated and tough Western response. Until then, those who have neither the courage nor foresight to act now should not get in the way of those who do.
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