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Not allowed to teach because of their political beliefs.

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Personally I'd rather have Gary Glitter as teacher than a BNP member.
    :eek: Sorry I had to take a 2nd 3rd or even 4th look. What? You'd rather someone rape chidlren in a classroom then have someone saying that blacks and asians should return home?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    It depends on your political outlook, doesn't it.

    Politics is politics, it all depends on whether you agree with it or not.

    It's been asked before, and you've never answered, but who the heck are you to say what people can and cannot think?


    as i reckon, if he isn't doing his job properly, sack him, however you cant just sack someone because of their political affiliations - unless they belong to an illegitamate political party such as one that is DIRECTLY associated with violence

    yes i dispice the BNP, but i recognise the right of non-violent political parties to exist - despite what what we know they think in private however it is better to confront and invalidate their arguments, not just ban them
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So is it that which makes it acceptable to you then? That it's a Union doing the bullying?

    I'm not sure how you equate a democratic decision with bullying. :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I see what you're saying MoK and I kind of agree with you. I guess I'm torn on the issue between people being able to have control over their own workplaces/communities/lives etc and the issue of political freedom. Actually, thinking about it, there isn't actually much conflict - people have the right to decide who they work with and the BNP member has the right to express his political opinions - somewhere else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Are you trying to say being a BNP member is no worse than belonging to a union?

    Yes, I am. In this sense, that is.
    Blagsta wrote:
    I'm not sure how you equate a democratic decision with bullying.

    Might is right?

    It isn't a democratic decision at all. Sure the union can ballot, but the minute that they present the results of their ballot and suggest that the man is sacked, it becomes bullying.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I see what you're saying MoK and I kind of agree with you. I guess I'm torn on the issue between people being able to have control over their own workplaces/communities/lives etc and the issue of political freedom.

    And that is where you start having problems. Eiether there is political freedom, or there isn't. There is not halfway house here and I really don't think that any union would welcome their political beliefs becoming as issue for employers.

    I agree that the employees should have a voice, but not on something like this, unless they are willing to accept their own political stances being outlawed. So, when a member of staff is sacked for being a member of the Labour Party/Socialist Party then the union should say nothing.
    Actually, thinking about it, there isn't actually much conflict - people have the right to decide who they work with and the BNP member has the right to express his political opinions - somewhere else.

    They do have the right to decide who they work with, I agree. If they don't like him then it is they who have a problem and should leave. Not him.

    Where criminal activity is involved, I would hold a different stance.

    This man has acted within the law, and I pray god I never see the day when being a member of a political party is illegal. I also pray that we never end up with a socialist Govt because if you and Aladdin are any example then you are just as dangerous, if not more so, that the incumbents.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    I'm not sure how you equate a democratic decision with bullying. :confused:

    Democratic for whom?

    If you agree that employees can hound a man out for his political views, then you must therefore agree with employers hounding someone out for their political views.

    The thing I am finding most bizarre is that you and Aladdin are seemingly happy with a group of people getting together to drive a man out of his job when he has committed no disciplinary offence, but when two shop stewards started an illegal strike at British Airways and got sacked for causing £25m+ damage you got your knickers in a wad and started bleating about how unfair it all was.

    This is all about a group of people using their political might to target someone they don't like. If it wasn't the NASUWT doing it it would be bullying, as you have admitted yourself. You are pro-bullying- if so, should we tear up employment rights law?

    The NASUWT, like all trade unions, are vermin only interested in their own ego trip. The day a trade union practises what it preaches is the day my pork chop grows wings.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Seems simple to me if his political beliefs effect his job he should be sacked, if they don't he shouldn be allowed to continue. Its counter-productive to sack him for no reason other than that he's a member of the BNP or not. Whether you agree with them or not a large part of the BNP's appeal is that they're standing up against the 'liberal establishment' and that this same 'liberal establishment' is hounding them for telling the 'truth'. Sacking him would in many people's eyes just confirm that view.

    As an aside does anyone know what the percentage of teachers in the school who are in NASUWT, compared to how many are in NUT and how many don't belong to a union. I'd be slightly suprised if NASUWT made up a majority.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can't help but worry at the way the so-called "liberal left", personified here by Aladdin and Blagsta, bleat on about how it's right to hound someone out of office because they don't like them being a BNP supporter. In a sense, it's fair enough. Indeed, let's extend that. Let's also see communist sympathisers and ex-communist scumbags get kicked out of the education system too. ***looks around*** Wonder why they've gone quiet now? How many of them sympathise with communist views? How many of them rightly condemn the utterly evil regime of Adolf Hitler, but never mention a peep about Josef Stalin? I will inevitably be accused by the Left of starting a witch-hunt, whilst they won't be able to see the irony of their own words.

    Now, let's deal with the more specific case. When I was at college, and something of a Leftie myself, I learnt a bit about teaching unions from one very militant Left-wing teacher. He was my History teacher, but I did not trust him to give me an impartial view one bit. Trade unions are stuffed to the gills full of Left-wingers who want to talk politics, but know they would have no chance of winning an election in any constituency. Ask yourself - would YOU vote for Bob Crowe of the RMT? Opposite, would you vote for Sir Digby Jones, formerly head of the CBI? I'd rather stick pins in my eyes.

    I'm not foolish here. I can see that the way any person teaches will be affected by their views and their experiences. That can be a good thing as well as a bad thing. I would rather that children learn about the horrors of racism by studying the facts. The facts of what we know about the Final Solution speak for themselves about the largest act of evil in history. All I would argue is teachers can put forward their own views, if they so wish, but should make absolutely clear that these are personal views and that students would not be punished or would otherwise suffer if they do not agree. I would positively not be in favour of the witch-hunts that Aladdin and Blagsta seem keen to start up on.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what about thre kids in all of this?
    anyone mentioned the very people these decisions effect the most ...cos i can't find anything.
    the teacher speaks publicly of his hatred of blck and asian people ...families ...children.
    so no ...he cannot possibly have a teaching job.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i can't see any mention of the children here.
    the people most effected by these decisions and debates.

    i declare i hate old people ...would you let me run a nursing home?

    i declare i hate black and asian people ...families ...children ...youlet me work with these families ...these children?
    i think not.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Has he publicly declared that he does though?

    The BNP leadership say it in private, but its not something they are very public about.

    If he is shown to be treating certain pupils different then he should be dismissed. Membership of a political party doesn't mean that necessarily.

    Having said that, I do see your point, and any victimisation of the BNP is hard to argue against.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    sorry about the almost double post ...don't know what happened there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    It depends on your political outlook, doesn't it.

    Politics is politics, it all depends on whether you agree with it or not.

    It's been asked before, and you've never answered, but who the heck are you to say what people can and cannot think?
    As far as I am concerned I have always answered such question. If I haven't please show me the error of my ways by showing me when that happened...

    And I have never suggested people should be banned from thinking anything. You couldn't be more off the mark if you tried.
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