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Raunch: Is it liberating or destroying women?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/newscomment.html?in_article_id=392852&in_page_id=1787
Any thoughts? Must admit the amount of younger girls vying for attention with a lesbian kiss on a night out is becoming quite common.
Any thoughts? Must admit the amount of younger girls vying for attention with a lesbian kiss on a night out is becoming quite common.
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It's as if female society wants revenge on all the nasty men who've held them back for so many years yet won't take the negativity which goes with it.
It means if women want to act like men (in being lairy) then they have to accept the negative image which goes with it.
Oh yeah of course, I'm not suggesting it's wrong to want to be desired and act in ways to encourage this, it's just that some people will view such behaviour in a certain way and will often comment to that effect.
Therefore I believe those who act 'sexually agressive/liberated/suggestive' should not complain if comments are made on their behaviour. Again, I'm not saying I think it's right or wrong, just that it will happen.
If you do that sort of thing, of course people are going to judge you, like it or not.
That article is hilarious:
The dresses in several top department stores were nothing short of street-walker tat: cropped tops, low-slung trousers, sequin T-shirts with saucy messages, split skirts and pink fluff on plunging necklines.
Street-walker tat??
I beg to differ: Natasha Kaplisnky?
Although the moeny is superb the main reason why she dances is that she enjoys it. She had very little confidence before she started and it's really helped her. She gets more out of it than the blokes who pay her to dance.
Bollocks - I never said or implied that. I will never agree that a woman is 'asking' to be groped or worse.
My point is men get criticised (rightly or wrongly) for being lairy, sexually suggestive etc and if women act the same then they should expect the same image.
I certainly did read that article - am I not allowed to give my views on the subject?
She must be well tired if she works 3 nights as well as a full time job.
Anyway that's up to her. I'd guess she's quite unusual in actually enjoying doing it, I've had a few friends do lap dancing and they didn't enjoy it most of the time.
I always find it kind of sad that guys go and pay a woman to dance for them. I mean, good for the women to make money out of the pathetic horny blokes.
But too many women seem to just focus on looking the same way and getting 'famous', what are they going to do when they go saggy and old?
Especially footballers wives/girlfriends. Get a JOB FFS.
I know what the article is about - and I am responding to what I see is the effects of women behaving like this. I actually disagree with what you say about men being seen as 'casanovas' etc - personally I have little respect for anyone who sleeps around regardless of their sex.
I don't see it as sexual liberation in any way at all. To me (and I know I may be wrong but this is the perception) this approach screams "men are this bad so just to show how tough we are, let's act the same way" which is just SO not the right way to do it IMO. Of course I'm not female so I don't see the world through your eyes but if a woman feels the need to be my equal then I'd much rather respect her than feel intimidated - and being sexually agressive certainly won't win my respect.
Men and women are different, let's not beat about the bush but let's celebrate the differences, not criticise them.
I would far more respect a woman if she was kind, caring, intelligent and loving. Oh, and keeps her bazookas under wraps until the bedroom
you have the sexually liberated side where women are enjoying sex, porn, talking about sex and vibrators. magazines and shops encourage this sexual liberation which to a certain extent is great. but i also think its a big fucking LIE. women aren't liberated because they're still judged by men (and women). the amount of times i've heard a guy say that he would lose respect for a girl if she slept with him on the first night they met. how can we be equal if we're still not allowed to actively persue sex. if we're still in a society where its a woman who 'puts out' or 'give it up' as if something for a man to gain and not a woman. it pisses me off something rotten.
aside from that though, i think women can enjoy this 'liberation' without turning yourself into a sex object for men. women shouldn't have to change their bodies in order to get attention and feel like they have some sort of power. i mean women who get breast implants and dye their hair peroxide blonde might claim that they "did it for themselves" but by turning yourself into a playboy bunny you inadvertantley did it for the men.
sorry if that wasn't very eloquently put
which essentially sums up my feelings about this new female culture and way of acting. It looks like objectification and it stinks like objectification so I'm pretty sure it's objectification. We're as repressed as ever but in a different way. Not to mention pigeon-holed, as one of the first posts attempted to do - we're all either sluts or cold fish, right? I must've missed that memo.
Anyway, I'm going to start on a big old ramble now. The problem seems to be that women either want to be 'like men', "one of the lads" in the strictest sense... or they want to be like the silicon-injected, tanorexic, bleached, preened and primped "women" (or supposed ideal image of) that they think appeals to men and appeases their fellow woman. It's as if you can't just be a woman anymore, you either have to be the girliest girl who ever existed (and that old "lady on the street, whore in the bedroom" phrase springs to mind here) or a ladette to feel like you have any standing among your male counterparts. It wouldn't be less of a problem if it was solely men who were objectifying women in such a way... but it would be a lot easier to understand and come to terms with than the bizarre collusion of women themselves in making themselves a living doll. On the other hand, what does the fact that other women are striving to be one of the lads (but still sexually desirable - so essentially a man with all a man's qualities but the right sexual organs) say about our view of women? Part of the book I found interesting was the assertion of a man (when asked about whether he liked spending time with women) that no one - not even other women - like to spend time with women. So we're in a quandry where we become more male (harking back to the "ladette" phenomenon of a few years ago) to fit in and are accepted but still obviously a woman which then makes us inferior in that group anyway... because no one could possibly like and enjoy a woman for what she is naturally, riiight? It seems to be something of an achievement that we can now do everything blokes do - talk about sex; drink 'til we fall down; swear; go to lap dancing clubs etc etc. But what kind of achievement is that? It scares me. One step forward, ten long jumps back.
So we have this new-wave of feminism/post-feminism/uber-feminism in which the women themselves claim to be empowered by flashing their tits, giving lap dances, holding power over men sexually. It's hard to argue against it when the women themselves are saying that it's empowering and that they are transcending feminism etc etc blah blah; but I can't shake the feeling that this all-new ironic view of feminism and the power of women is just rebranded and repackaged objectification and repression for a new generation of women. To call it out for what it [this "raunch culture" and dubious empowerment] automatically brands that woman as a humourless, frigid prude (and that's using the nicer phrases as an example).
Yeah but she's loaded.
She told it that it's quite the oposite actually. Most of the girls seem to enjoy it, mostly I think because it enflates their ego. They're just models at the end of the day.
It's not always pathetic, it's mostly just a bit of fun.
Is there something wrong with a woman choosing to become a housewife?
I'm not on about the ones who have kids and look after them. That is fair enough, they have the money to be able to do that and can stay at home and look after the home etc. I suspect a lot of women who do go out to jobs they don't enjoy would like to do that.
I'm on about the girlfriends who just seem to have no ambition and are quite happy to sponge off their boyfriend and do nothing themselves apart from shop/drink/pout. Whatever happened to having goals in your life?
Being a lap dancer is hardly the same as being a model. I'm sure some girls do enjoy it, but my friends found it degrading. You're selling your body and being viewed simply in sexual terms.
Yes, some groups of lads go to lap dancing clubs for a stag night or special occasion and it's fun. But you also get sad old guys or people who have no sexual contact with 'normal' girls or even normal conversations. Their only contact with women is going to pay for dances.
I find that pretty pathetic.
The vast majority of models work on the same basic princable that sex sells.
My sister says she's just making use of what she has. I can't see anything wrong with that. She sometimes gets grief from people (girls and blokes) about how 'degrading' it is and that's the only thing about the job she seems to dislike.
Obviously it just goes to show that a lot of women are happy with 'raunch'.