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For those against the Iraq war....

24

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    The UN forces should be made up of mostly Arab/Muslim troops, and those from neutral countries.

    Like where? People seem to be suggesting that the UN has thousands of troops it can just pull out of no where.

    And even if you could get loads of Muslim UN troops they'd be the wrong sort of Muslim to a large chunk of Iraq.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But the UN hasn't got an army readily assembled anyway. When a task force is needed member countries volunteer troops.

    Thus, people from various Arab, Muslim and neutral countries could volunteer a number of troops. They don't need to be many. It's only when you are conducting a country-wide illegal occupation of an entire nation that you need troops in their hundred of thousands.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    But the UN hasn't got an army readily assembled anyway. When a task force is needed member countries volunteer troops.

    Thus, people from various Arab, Muslim and neutral countries could volunteer a number of troops. They don't need to be many. It's only when you are conducting a country-wide illegal occupation of an entire nation that you need troops in their hundred of thousands.

    But no government in their right mind would sign up to this. And you would need a lot because there really isnt any other police or armed forces.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The US should send half a million more troops to Iraq to squash the fascists.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That certainly worked the last time, didn't it?

    vietnam%20war.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But there was daily oppression and fear of murder if you didn't conform...echoes of Hitler I feel.
    no there wasn't.
    under sadman there was freedom of religion.
    if you opposed or threatened the status quo then you might well find electrodes attatched to your nuts and sadmans boys raping your granny but ...your average window cleaner ...teacher ...petrol pump attendant or buisness man had very little if anything to fear.
    saddam ruled with an iron fist but the country was well fed well eductaed and well supplied.
    look what WE have turned it into now.
    and people wonder why they hate us and our ways ...ways which we are frocing upon them ... :chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The US should send half a million more troops to Iraq to squash the fascists.

    The US should send 500,000 troups to Iraq to squash themselves. Well I'd settle for that! :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no there wasn't.
    under sadman there was freedom of religion.
    if you opposed or threatened the status quo then you might well find electrodes attatched to your nuts and sadmans boys raping your granny but ...your average window cleaner ...teacher ...petrol pump attendant or buisness man had very little if anything to fear.
    saddam ruled with an iron fist but the country was well fed well eductaed and well supplied.
    look what WE have turned it into now.
    and people wonder why they hate us and our ways ...ways which we are frocing upon them ... :chin:

    OK so if all the people on here who bitch about Blair (rightly or wrongly thats not the point) were facing "electrodes attatched to (their) nuts and sadmans boys raping (their) granny", you're telling me it would be ok for other countires to stand by and let it happen? He had to be removed IMO. For me that is good enough reason for this war. I don't give a shit about the weapons of mass destruction or whatever, Blair and Bush didn't need to feed me that crap to make me support it.

    We let Hitler get away with it and look what happened...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OK so if all the people on here who bitch about Blair (rightly or wrongly thats not the point) were facing "electrodes attatched to (their) nuts and sadmans boys raping (their) granny", you're telling me it would be ok for other countires to stand by and let it happen? He had to be removed IMO. For me that is good enough reason for this war. I don't give a shit about the weapons of mass destruction or whatever, Blair and Bush didn't need to feed me that crap to make me support it.

    Ok we'll go with that line of thought. Why are there still countless leaders of countries around the world who are 10x worse than Sadam but haven't been invaded or even threatened with invasion? The war was founded on a lie.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Ok we'll go with that line of thought. Why are there still countless leaders of countries around the world who are 10x worse than Sadam but haven't been invaded or even threatened with invasion? The war was founded on a lie.


    I agree it was founded on a lie you are right. I still maintain my view though.

    I don't know why others have not been invaded, nothing in it for the us or uk? I didn't say I supported their reasoning.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree it was founded on a lie you are right. I still maintain my view though.

    I don't know why others have not been invaded, nothing in it for the us or uk? I didn't say I supported their reasoning.

    Do the ends justify the means though? I.e. was it worth it? If I had to chose, I'd rather Iraqis live under Sadam than what they have now and the threat we as Westerners face because of the invasion. Any day of the week.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Do the ends justify the means though? I.e. was it worth it? If I had to chose, I'd rather Iraqis live under Sadam than what they have now and the threat we as Westerners face because of the invasion. Any day of the week.

    Personally I believe the ends do justify the means, but I don't think that the ends will be seen for many many years.

    I don't expect everyone to agree with me and I realise I'm in the minority on here.

    I do not feel any more threatened by terrorism as I did prior to the war in Iraq.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From bad to worse in Baghdad

    Nothing is worth this IMO.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is a shame coalition forces cannot just pull out and leave it to an already established political force, much like North Korea and Vietnam...more like Vietnam i think. But there isnt one, except Iran...so...what to do?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I do not feel any more threatened by terrorism as I did prior to the war in Iraq.
    the people in iraq do though don't they.
    we can get on with our comfrtable lives whilst their country is blown apart.
    iraq was a thriving and reasonavbly stable country.
    house prices were still going up in baghdad on the eve of the invasion cos ...the ones who welcomed it believed the yanks would topple saddam and then leave but no ...they disbanded the army the polkice the government ...with nothing ...not even any idea about what they were going to do next.
    the vast majority of the population in baghdad were worrying about getting to work in the morning through the london type traffic jams ...not anymore!
    saddam hated extreme islamists ...they hated him cos he allowed xtrians and night clubs with strippers and drugs and alcohol etc.
    he was the best ...the very best thing the west could ever hope for in the so called war on terror ...now look what we done.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the people in iraq do though don't they.
    we can get on with our comfrtable lives whilst their country is blown apart.
    iraq was a thriving and reasonavbly stable country.
    house prices were still going up in baghdad on the eve of the invasion cos ...the ones who welcomed it believed the yanks would topple saddam and then leave but no ...they disbanded the army the polkice the government ...with nothing ...not even any idea about what they were going to do next.
    the vast majority of the population in baghdad were worrying about getting to work in the morning through the london type traffic jams ...not anymore!
    saddam hated extreme islamists ...they hated him cos he allowed xtrians and night clubs with strippers and drugs and alcohol etc.
    he was the best ...the very best thing the west could ever hope for in the so called war on terror ...now look what we done.

    I was simply answering Turlough's questions about how I feel as a "westerner", I do not dispute that whilst this continues the people of Iraq are facing terror on the streets of Bagdad and their country is being torn apart, IMO it had to be done, for the hundreds/thousands slaughtered under his control. Surely his 'ethnic cleansing' had to be stopped, surely it isn't right that people are forced to live under a dictator's rule?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hundreds/thousands slaughtered under his control. Surely his 'ethnic cleansing' had to be stopped, surely it isn't right that people are forced to live under a dictator's rule?
    hundreds of thousands?
    very questionable.
    you don't realy believe our governments give a toss about any of that do you?
    while we were selling chemical weapons to him to use on the iranians and ...on the very same kurds that churchill wanted to gas?
    if the reality your projecting is true ...when will we invade suadi to free their people?
    if this great thing we call democracy that we wish to force on them with shock and awe and torture and dead children is to work ...then they will HAVE ...to vote for who we like.
    if they vote for who they like ...we will have to bomb the crap out of them again and again until they learn.
    look at palestine.
    they have democratic elections and the people vote for someone that america and israel don't like ...so we now retaliate financialy and with threats of violence and refuse to have anything to do with them!
    is all the death and destruction we are inflicting on innocent people realy worth it just so that these people ...are then only allowed to vote for who we say so?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    by the way ...hitler is not a comparrison by any measure.
    hitler was bent on invading and conquring a continent.
    he was bent on world domination.
    saddam wanted to westernise the middle east ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hundreds of thousands?
    very questionable.
    you don't realy believe our governments give a toss about any of that do you?
    while we were selling chemical weapons to him to use on the iranians and ...on the very same kurds that churchill wanted to gas?
    if the reality your projecting is true ...when will we invade suadi to free their people?
    if this great thing we call democracy that we wish to force on them with shock and awe and torture and dead children is to work ...then they will HAVE ...to vote for who we like.
    if they vote for who they like ...we will have to bomb the crap out of them again and again until they learn.
    look at palestine.
    they have democratic elections and the people vote for someone that america and israel don't like ...so we now retaliate financialy and with threats of violence and refuse to have anything to do with them!
    is all the death and destruction we are inflicting on innocent people realy worth it just so that these people ...are then only allowed to vote for who we say so?

    Well no I don't think our governments care but I do.

    Of course innocent people are going to die it is a war after all, but just this week a mass grave was found with the bones of people murdered under Saddams regime.

    Did the Iraqi's really vote for who they liked though? Or was it that they were too scared not to vote for Saddam, too in fear of their lives to stand up to him? I bloody well would have voted for him too if I was them, oh no wait I'm a woman maybe I wouldn't be allowed.

    Innocent Germans were killed during WW2 were we wrong to stop Hitler killing jews?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    by the way ...hitler is not a comparrison by any measure.
    hitler was bent on invading and conquring a continent.
    he was bent on world domination.
    saddam wanted to westernise the middle east ...

    I believe it is a comparison actually, he got that way because we appeased his killing of innocents. Again that is my opinion and I accept that many disagree, including yourself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Saddams regime.

    Did the Iraqi's really vote for who they liked though?
    Innocent Germans were killed during WW2 were we wrong to stop Hitler killing jews?
    when ...when did iraquis vote for someone they liked or disliked ...you lost me.

    hitler was bent on dominating a continent ...financialy politicaly and militarily ...we went to war to stop him running our lives ...not to save the jews.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I believe it is a comparison actually, he got that way because we appeased his killing of innocents. Again that is my opinion and I accept that many disagree, including yourself.
    fine ...if you believe that slaughtering thousands of innocent people in a country that posed no threat to us whatsoever ...bringing a sucsessful nation to its knees and total madness ...is a fine example of how democracy is supposed to work ...who are the hundreds of thousands of dead and bereaved people to argue with that?
    surely they will now welcome our political ideals with tears in their eyes ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    when ...when did iraquis vote for someone they liked or disliked ...you lost me.

    hitler was bent on dominating a continent ...financialy politicaly and militarily ...we went to war to stop him running our lives ...not to save the jews.


    But this is my point, our intervention did save many jews and freed Germans from a dictatorship whether or not that was our governments initial intention.

    I was under th impression that at some point many moons ago Saddam was elected into power by his people, obviously I am wrong but never the less my point remains the same. He lead through fear and I believe it is right that other countries in the world should stand up to him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But this is my point, our intervention did save many jews and freed Germans from a dictatorship whether or not that was our governments initial intention.

    I was under th impression that at some point many moons ago Saddam was elected into power by his people, obviously I am wrong but never the less my point remains the same. He lead through fear and I believe it is right that other countries in the world should stand up to him.
    so we should invade iran and suadi arabia as soon as possible.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so we should invade iran and suadi arabia as soon as possible.

    We should remove dictators and fear from our world yes..

    I would also hope that lessons have been learned in Iraq, I don't think stretching our forces any further in any other countries would be sensible. I think the UN should also play a bigger part in any future attempts at such a thing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We should remove fear from our world yes..

    .
    and we are removing fear and replacing it with the joys of death and destruction on a country wide scale ... :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and we are removing fear and replacing it with the joys of death and destruction on a country wide scale ... :confused:

    We are just going round in circles, I respect your views and I would hope the you respect mine.

    Out of interest though...

    If the uk was suddenly taken over by a dictatorship where women were given no rights and people excuted for speaking badly of our leader would you hope that another country would try to put a stop to it or not? Bearing in mind you could be shot dead in a gun battle if they did or you could be shot dead for disagreeing with a dictator if they didnt?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the uk has already been there a number of times ...and the people sorted it.

    it's not ok for hitler to invade other counties that pose no threat ...but it's ok for us to do it is what your saying?
    hitler wanted financial control of europe and it's resources ...we want financial control of the middle eastand its resources /....but we're the good guys when we kill and destroy?
    i don't realy understand this kind of logic i'm afraid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ...and when emily pankhurst was chaining herself to a fence ...we would have been better off if a foriegn power invaded and slaughtered our children ... :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    the uk has already been there a number of times ...and the people sorted it.

    it's not ok for hitler to invade other counties that pose no threat ...but it's ok for us to do it is what your saying?
    hitler wanted financial control of europe and it's resources ...we want financial control of the middle eastand its resources /....but we're the good guys when we kill and destroy?
    i don't realy understand this kind of logic i'm afraid.


    I don't believe we are doing the above and it isnt my logic, it might well be my governments logic but it isn't mine.

    Thats ok I don't expect everyone to understand me.
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