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Over flowing with illegal immigrants

You cant fail to have noticed that some parts of the press have whipped themselves up into a xenophobic frezy this morning about illegal immigrants.

Is there indeed a problem?

And if so any ideas what we should do about this 'problem'?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The guy on the news this morning thought that the solution was ID cards with biometric information, as well as having electronic borders, and that the people who were moaning about the ID cards as well as moaning about immigrants shouldn't, because they can't have it both ways.

    What's wrong with having illegal immigrants? I haven't seen anything in the press either for or against them, the papers just say 'OMFGZ ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS' and that's about it.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yet more evidence of this governments mess of the immigration system. Send them home packing!

    You wonder why people vote far right....
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    Yet more evidence of this governments mess of the immigration system. Send them home packing!

    You wonder why people vote far right....

    hmmm you're back then....


    Aslong as they're not doing harm whats the problem? probably doing a job no brit would want to do anyway.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I very much in the 'not that bothered' camp. The only people I worry for with illegal immigration are the immigrants themselves.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    hmmm you're back then....


    .
    LOL, was just gonna say that
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Solution - Stop pretending there are borders, come on into the real world and wake and grow the fuck up!

    Oh, and stop the "state" fundies spreading their madness generally.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Solution - Stop pretending there are borders
    :lol: I thought of you when I heard that!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    hmmm you're back then....


    Aslong as they're not doing harm whats the problem? probably doing a job no brit would want to do anyway.

    There are 1.5m unemployed and a further 2.7m on incapacity benefit, the difference in pay between benefits and unskilled work is very little so for a lot of those people it’s simply not worth working. And with pay rates for the unskilled kept artificially low by a massive pool of cheap labour pay for unskilled work isn't going to increase by much. For the most part it's not that Brits think these jobs are beyond them it's that it doesn't make financial sense.

    Further, we're a small and already densely populated island. There's a shortage of housing in the SE. Illegal immigration will always happen but the government has to do whatever it can to prevent it. If it doesn't you're effectively allowing unlimited immigration – something Britain doesn’t have the infrastructure to support. And illegal immigration can have some harmful effects. People trafficking, sex slaves and organised crime for instance.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The only people I worry for with illegal immigration are the immigrants themselves.

    Yeah, same here.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are 1.5m unemployed and a further 2.7m on incapacity benefit, the difference in pay between benefits and unskilled work is very little so for a lot of those people it’s simply not worth working. And with pay rates for the unskilled kept artificially low by a massive pool of cheap labour pay for unskilled work isn't going to increase by much. For the most part it's not that Brits think these jobs are beyond them it's that it doesn't make financial sense.

    the problem is price inflation of basic necessities in regards to wages, im no economist so have no idea

    if it costs £100/week to rent in london + bills as well, and if i lived on benefits in london, despite being broke as benefits really arent that much, ill have a roof over my head and won't be starving


    illegal workers dont bring down wages as those jobs would never be done by legal workers, and despite this countries unemployment level WHICH WILL NEVER BE 0, it is possible to find jobs still if you are trained in the right things, most people who come here, come here because they have a tradeskill which we lack, and most do it legitimatelly also

    the people who come here illegally often land up working in unsafe factories, as prostitutes, or hand car washes
    Further, we're a small and already densely populated island. There's a shortage of housing in the SE. Illegal immigration will always happen but the government has to do whatever it can to prevent it. If it doesn't you're effectively allowing unlimited immigration – something Britain doesn’t have the infrastructure to support. And illegal immigration can have some harmful effects. People trafficking, sex slaves and organised crime for instance.

    the infrastruture is crap because in this country we habit of patching over problems instead of fixing them, the railways in this country sum this up, our track network is over 100 years old in layout, whilst populations have moved around

    another thing is that places like scotland and north of england are actually losing people, which further worsens their economy.... whilst places in the south east are overbrimming with people

    simple solution to illegal immigrants is to do what they done in spain and have an 'amnesty' of sorts, where if you have been in the country for 9months you can get residency or work permit
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Is there indeed a problem?

    There is a problem. Tugger's new girlfriend got in without a visa, I'm bloody sure ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teagan wrote:
    There is a problem. Tugger's new girlfriend got in without a visa, I'm bloody sure ...
    Don't worry, he'll just marry her, then they'll have to let her stay. Don't think she'll be able to wear white though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    \
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    illegal workers dont bring down wages as those jobs would never be done by legal workers, and despite this countries unemployment level WHICH WILL NEVER BE 0

    Not necessarily illegal workers but immigrants – cheap labour do keep wages artificially low. It’s the same story as in America – business lobbies hard for increased immigration because business benefits. Employers paying low wages for cleaning jobs, kitchen jobs, etc aren’t going to increase wages when there’s a constant line of Albanians queuing up to work for crap money. – And unemployed people or people on incapacity benefit understandably won’t take a crap job paying crap money if they can get a similar amount of money from benefits and stay at home.

    Legal workers presently on benefits would take those low paid unskilled jobs if it made more economic sense than it does at the moment. But if the choice is between getting an insignificant income from benefits and staying at home or working long hours for bad money in a mundane and crap job and not being much better off people quite understandably will stay at home.
    it is possible to find jobs still if you are trained in the right things, most people who come here, come here because they have a tradeskill which we lack, and most do it legitimatelly also

    I don’t think many reasonable people have any objection to skilled immigrants coming here. (Although it is incredibly immoral to tempt nurses and doctors from third world countries with better wages when third world countries paid for their training and need them more than us). We also need to improve education and invest in retraining of people already here as a more long term solution to skills shortages.
    simple solution to illegal immigrants is to do what they done in spain and have an 'amnesty' of sorts, where if you have been in the country for 9months you can get residency or work permit

    How is that a solution to illegal immigration? Illegal behaviour should not be rewarded – why should we encourage more people traffickers?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    hmmm you're back then....


    Aslong as they're not doing harm whats the problem? probably doing a job no brit would want to do anyway.
    That's a good thing but when they are not tracked... when they are commiting crimes.... see what I'm getting at?

    Controlled immigration is the only way.

    This government is a complete joke when it comes to this issue. This is Blair's legancy!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Listen guys...look on the left wing BBC bias have your say section on this exact issue. You will see most people are fed up of illegal immigration and want the lot of them sent back.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There are 1.5m unemployed and a further 2.7m on incapacity benefit, the difference in pay between benefits and unskilled work is very little so for a lot of those people it’s simply not worth working. And with pay rates for the unskilled kept artificially low by a massive pool of cheap labour pay for unskilled work isn't going to increase by much. For the most part it's not that Brits think these jobs are beyond them it's that it doesn't make financial sense.

    Further, we're a small and already densely populated island. There's a shortage of housing in the SE. Illegal immigration will always happen but the government has to do whatever it can to prevent it. If it doesn't you're effectively allowing unlimited immigration – something Britain doesn’t have the infrastructure to support. And illegal immigration can have some harmful effects. People trafficking, sex slaves and organised crime for instance.


    Bollocks

    a) Pay for the low-skilled has been driven mainly by tech and structural changes, not immigration.

    b) Unemployment has got nothing to do with anything, the percentage of self-employed entrepreneurs amongst immigrants is far higher than in the 'native' population, i.e. they are job creators

    c) I agree with you that 'they do the jobs Brits won't do' is poor argument but that doesn't matter anyway

    d) Small and densely populated is relative, there is loads of space, other countries are more densely populated

    e) No reason to think housing wouldn't expand with more people like it always has, more workers to build them as well.

    f) Infrastructure is provided as well as consumed by immigrants, is their any reason to believe that it wouldn't continue to be matched as it always has when the popluation has expnaded?

    g) The last bit is just saying it is bad because it is illegal, if it weren't illegal then there would be no need for trafficing etc

    Anyone who is so supportive of the US and loves it that much but is not in favour of immigration is somewhat confused........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Bollocks

    a) Pay for the low-skilled has been driven mainly by tech and structural changes, not immigration.

    The market rate for pay as a cleaner in a London hotel would be higher if there wasn’t a large pool of cheap labour. Do you dispute that?
    Toadborg wrote:
    b) Unemployment has got nothing to do with anything, the percentage of self-employed entrepreneurs amongst immigrants is far higher than in the 'native' population, i.e. they are job creators

    Unemployment is a related issue because for many unemployed people it doesn’t make financial sense to go out and do low paid work. The market rate for low paid work has been distorted.
    Toadborg wrote:
    d) Small and densely populated is relative, there is loads of space, other countries are more densely populated

    Bye bye Green Belt then?
    Toadborg wrote:
    Anyone who is so supportive of the US and loves it that much but is not in favour of immigration is somewhat confused........

    You’re confused. I’m in favour of immigration, I just don’t think unlimited illegal immigration is a good idea. Um and it’s not as if Americans don’t have qualms about illegal immigration.

    My comment concerning why it’s not economically viable for many people on benefits to work could be interpreted as being against all immigrants coming here who take those jobs. (As that’s why the wages are kept low). But I don’t think that’s a realistic solution to the problem of there being so many people on benefits. Progressively cutting the benefits for those capable of working would seem a better idea.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you want more people to work it's very simple, drop all taxes, drop all violently impose regualtion, sack all the parasites and have an entirely free market.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We are hardly "over flowing" with immigrants are we? I mean, i dont about you, but i im not exactly crushed on all sides by people because migrants are takin gup so much room.

    Just because it is a fact that countries with tight migration control enjoy higher standards of living, doesnt mean anything. It might just be a coincidence.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You’re confused. I’m in favour of immigration, I just don’t think unlimited illegal immigration is a good idea. Um and it’s not as if Americans don’t have qualms about illegal immigration.

    How are we supposed to limit illegal immigration? All political parties keep talking about securing our borders, but we all know thats just rubbish.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The news coverage of this issue is really annoying me.

    Especially the use of years old footage of people running over train tracks in France and the whole hysteria over what is not even a NEW issue.

    Just the Conservatives putting it on the agenda. Well what would they do, go round town with an illegal detector and scoop them all up?

    How can anyone know how many illegal immigrants there are? Also just because someone is a failed asylum seeker does not make them an illegal immigrant.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    luke88 wrote:
    That's a good thing but when they are not tracked... when they are commiting crimes.... see what I'm getting at?

    Controlled immigration is the only way.

    because Brits don't commit crime :rolleyes:
    This is Blair's legancy!

    :D

    Welcome bakc lkue
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PussyKatty wrote:
    How can anyone know how many illegal immigrants there are? Also just because someone is a failed asylum seeker does not make them an illegal immigrant.
    Surely by definition it does? :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Surely by definition it does? :confused:

    How? Some people are refused asylum and they are allowed to appeal, plus others may be refused but can't be sent back because they are from countries where there is a war or something. The government knows about them. They are different from people who simply arrived and never claimed asylum and are not on any records. There's also people who are on fake identities, which I believe has increased a lot since the expansion of the EU.

    I know quite a lot of Russians who are here on fake Latvian passports. From what I know they are all working.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    Surely by definition it does? :confused:

    true


    another addition: you have to come into this country illegally to claim asylum. i doubt if you're escaping torture etc your country will let you apply there :lol:


    a failed application for refugee status may make you an illegal, but there are ways around it, like since your here and might have some useful skills, applying for a work visa :thumb:


    how can you limit 'illegal immigration' since it's illegal and something out of the realm of government, unless they mean clamping down on the links between organised crime and officials who can allow this
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PussyKatty wrote:
    How? Some people are refused asylum and they are allowed to appeal, plus others may be refused but can't be sent back because they are from countries where there is a war or something. The government knows about them. They are different from people who simply arrived and never claimed asylum and are not on any records.
    Two separate groups, I agree. But if their claim for asylum is turned down (and I accept that some decisions are wrong or unfair) then they have effectively come to this country to claim asylum without grounds for doing so. That makes them an economic migrant, and without visa or passport that makes their journey illegal.
    There's also people who are on fake identities, which I believe has increased a lot since the expansion of the EU.
    And this is the reason that identity cards for British citizens cannot prevent illegal immigration. Every country in the world would need to have a similar system of ID cards in order for it to truly work.
    I know quite a lot of Russians who are here on fake Latvian passports. From what I know they are all working.
    They can still be illegal immigrants even if they have a job and contribute to society.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    If you want more people to work it's very simple, drop all taxes, drop all violently impose regualtion, sack all the parasites and have an entirely free market.

    Which will mean no emergency services, teachers and other jobs that we pay our taxes for.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Which will mean no emergency services, teachers and other jobs that we pay our taxes for.

    Insurance and voluntary trade solve both of those. Anything else?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Insurance and voluntary trade solve both of those. Anything else?

    You're talking rubbish as usual...
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