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Bolivia takes control of its own oil and gas resources

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A trillion times preferable?

    This implies to me that you think Cuba is pretty good.

    Trillion is a big number.............
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Foolish post. You are quite silly.

    How can you compare Gadafi and Castro to fucking Stalin? What are you, stupid? God, you'll say we all have Pol Pot posters on our walls next.

    Thankyou for showing some idocy.

    No thankyou. Your posts are a wonder as well.

    Stalinist is a turn of phrase, it wasn't a specific comparison as was quite obvious.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    A trillion times preferable?

    This implies to me that you think Cuba is pretty good.

    Trillion is a big number.............
    It was a figure of speech of course.

    Though could say I consider a healthy, fair and socially conscious democracy two trillion times better than a fascist dictatorship, and one trillion times better than Castro's dictatorship. I hope that clears things up as to what form of governments I like or dislike. ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Oh how typical of you... neocon to the letter. You should apply for a job in the Republican Party machine. If you haven't done so already.

    I should? Well I’m actually working in the US for a Democrat on the November elections during my gap yr.
    Aladdin wrote:
    Chavez is infinitely better than the ultra corrupt, lying, cheating, murdering war criminal president of the US you hold in such high regard. And you know it.

    Whatever. And Chavez is a real angel isn't he? Oh no, wait he's a sponsor of terrorism.
    Aladdin wrote:
    You are advocating, not for the first time, that a democratically elected elected leader is overthrown illegally by a coup d'etat. And you dare to speak of democratic values in the same breath? LOL!

    Wait a sec, didn’t your beloved Chavez attempt to launch a coup in 1992? He must respect democracy mustn’t he? So much so actually that he’s guilty of electoral fraud and imprisoning political opponents. Then there’s the censorship and torture.

    You can attack Bush and Republicans all you once but I’d much rather be an obsessive opponent of Bush in the United States than an anti-Chavez protestor in Venezuela. I’d imagine you agree with me there – in which case your earlier comments make little sense.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    It was a figure of speech of course.

    Though could say I consider a healthy, fair and socially conscious democracy two trillion times better than a fascist dictatorship, and one trillion times better than Castro's dictatorship. I hope that clears things up as to what form of governments I like or dislike. ;)

    But why is Castro's Cuba better than a fascist dictatorship?

    It has all the hallmarks

    http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-01.htm#P348_12349
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whatever. And Chavez is a real angel isn't he? Oh no, wait he's a sponsor of terrorism.
    yeah, that's definite proof, that is. :rolleyes:

    I find it hilarious that you post a claim about supporting terrorism (and in particular Al Qaida). Care to guess who was a proud sponsor and financer of Al Qaida for many, many years?


    Wait a sec, didn’t your beloved Chavez attempt to launch a coup in 1992? He must respect democracy mustn’t he? So much so actually that he’s guilty of electoral fraud and imprisoning political opponents. Then there’s the censorship and torture.
    He was democraticallly elected the last time around. That is all you need to know.

    I find your readiness to call for democracies to be overthrown by coups d'etat rather disturbing...

    And as for the torture... LOL x 1,000,000,000. If you had the common decency to denounce the US government and G.W. Bush as the disgusting torturing scumbags they are your protestations would have some merit. But you have never done so, have you? Why, you keep saying what a great president Bush is.

    Truly unbelievable!
    You can attack Bush and Republicans all you once but I’d much rather be an obsessive opponent of Bush in the United States than an anti-Chavez protestor in Venezuela. I’d imagine you agree with me there – in which case your earlier comments make little sense.
    Care to explain how an anti-Chavez protestor would be worse off than an anti-Bush protestor?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    If you had the common decency to denounce the US government and G.W. Bush as the disgusting torturing scumbags they are your protestations would have some merit.
    Protestations......:D

    Wow that's actually a real word. I still don't like it though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    But why is Castro's Cuba better than a fascist dictatorship?

    It has all the hallmarks

    http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/cuba/Cuba996-01.htm#P348_12349

    For starters is far less bloodier than every last single fascist dictatorship in the history of mankind.

    Secondly, misguided and fucked up as it is, at least Castro's dictatorship attempts to make things fairer for the population at large, instead of only for a selected upper class minorty as right wing fascist dictatorships invariably do.

    And lastly, make no mistake that if the US hadn't subjected Cuba to the longest, most disgusting and appalling embargo in human history, the Cubans would have a standard of living that would piss on the record of fascist dictatorships anywhere. Why, even in the appalling conditions the embargo have brought them, Cuban enjoys better healthcare than the US itself!

    Before anyone says anything, no, this is not a defence of Castro's dictatorship. But even though it is completely unnaceptable, it is still preferable to the many fascist dictatorships the democracy and freedom loving USA has supported over the years.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ever heard of Pan Am Flight 103? What about Gaddafi's funding of the Black September movement which carried out the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre? The 1986 Berlin disco bombing? The animal incurred the ‘wrath of the west’ for good reason.
    i never said i supported the man!
    i pointed out what happened to him and his country for taking back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.
    by the way ...none of the thingsyou mention happened till after he had upset the west ...who then did everything possible to unseat him ...grab back what they wanted ...they failed.
    is it any wonder he hated and fought the west?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I find your readiness to call for democracies to be overthrown by coups d'etat rather disturbing...

    I haven’t called for any regime to be overthrown. I’ve said that if Chavez was the victim of a coup I wouldn’t consider it a bad thing, I don’t think the US should actively incite a coup against Chavez – but hey if it happens then it might not be a bad thing.
    Aladdin wrote:
    Care to explain how an anti-Chavez protestor would be worse off than an anti-Bush protestor?

    From Amnesty International:
    Between 27 February and 4 March 2004 political violence erupted once again in Venezuela. Street protests and demonstrations by supporters of the opposition movement led to repeated violent confrontations with police and security forces in different parts of the country. There were also demonstrations by government supporters. According to information received by Amnesty International, in the context of the disturbances, as many as 14 people were killed in circumstances that have yet to be clarified and over 200 people were injured, with credible reports of excessive use of force by the security forces. There were also more than 500 detentions and a number of reports of ill-treatment and torture... there is strong evidence that the use of rubber bullets, tear gas and batons was frequently indiscriminate and disproportionate and significantly contributed to a week of spiralling violence rather than preventing it.

    Then there's political prisoners - also see:
    http://www.vcrisis.com/index.php?content=letters/200403020624
    http://proveo.org/political_prisoners_venezuela.pdf

    :lol: So would you rather be an anti-Chavez protester in Venezuela than an anti-Bush protester in the States? If that is the case I'm frankly amazed. When the FBI round up anti-war protesters, put them on trial in a kangaroo court, shoot a few of them, torture a couple and imprison the rest you might have a point. Until then have the decency to recognise the unpleasantness of Chavez’s regime.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i never said i supported the man!
    i pointed out what happened to him and his country for taking back what was rightfully theirs in the first place.
    by the way ...none of the thingsyou mention happened till after he had upset the west ...who then did everything possible to unseat him ...grab back what they wanted ...they failed.
    is it any wonder he hated and fought the west?

    Fair enough. To be fair to Gaddafi while he’s not exactly ideal I’m far more comfortable with him than the regimes in Syria and Iran. Tbh I wouldn’t have major qualms about Gaddafi getting his hands on a nuke, the man isn’t a Muslim fundamentalist like the nutter in Iran and isn’t really a great danger to anyone outside Libya. (Not really surprising I guess that Gaddafi who is at least rational and sane has renounced his nuclear weapons programme and would rather help develop Libya than acquire weapons he doesn't need - while Iran, led by a Muslim fundamentalist determined to destroy countries wants them).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interesting that in his final years of oppressing his people, either driving them out or killing them by the hundreds of thousands,the corrupt old despot Castro is making overtures to rejoin the Roman Catholic Church, the depository of his original faith - well you know what they say, "once a Catholic ...... "

    I suppose the old hypocrite doesn't want to go to hell where he belongs .... Whatever happened to Marxism?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fair enough. To be fair to Gaddafi while he’s not exactly ideal I’m far more comfortable with him than the regimes in Syria and Iran. Tbh I wouldn’t have major qualms about Gaddafi getting his hands on a nuke, the man isn’t a Muslim fundamentalist like the nutter in Iran and isn’t really a great danger to anyone outside Libya. (Not really surprising I guess that Gaddafi who is at least rational and sane has renounced his nuclear weapons programme and would rather help develop Libya than acquire weapons he doesn't need - while Iran, led by a Muslim fundamentalist determined to destroy countries wants them).
    and he has recently denounced the arab world as being pathetic in theoir aims of some imaginary brotherhood or shared cause ...suggested some of them should read some history.
    he also stated that the arab world is no longer for him and is now looking to africa.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ...suggested some of them should read some history.

    Did Blagsta get himself a new job or something?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru


    Whatever. And Chavez is a real angel isn't he? Oh no, wait he's a sponsor of terrorism.

    Hmmmm...totally unbiased source there. :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :lol: So would you rather be an anti-Chavez protester in Venezuela than an anti-Bush protester in the States? If that is the case I'm frankly amazed. When the FBI round up anti-war protesters, put them on trial in a kangaroo court, shoot a few of them, torture a couple and imprison the rest you might have a point. Until then have the decency to recognise the unpleasantness of Chavez’s regime.
    When Venezuela starts building nazi-style concentration camps, illegally kidnaps people from all over the world including some of its own citizens, and send them to said torture camps for years on end to be tortured and kept indefinitely without even the right to a trial, I might start to think I'd be better off facing the US administration.

    Or do you actually think it makes it alright if you commit atrocities outside your national borders?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tugger wrote:
    killing them by the hundreds of thousands,
    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    When Venezuela starts building nazi-style concentration camps, illegally kidnaps people from all over the world including some of its own citizens, and send them to said torture camps for years on end to be tortured and kept indefinitely without even the right to a trial, I might start to think I'd be better off facing the US administration.

    Or do you actually think it makes it alright if you commit atrocities outside your national borders?

    That post doesn’t even merit a comprehensive response. Tbh I’m disappointed and slightly disgusted that a seemingly educated person is so ignorant to make the wholly inappropriate Nazi jibe at the US. I can only presume you have no understanding of the history of Nazi Germany which is pretty worrying, perhaps a read of Martin Gilbert’s The Holocaust might help you understand how inaccurate as well as offensive your pathetic insult is.

    Btw, out of interest why is it that whether it’s the US or Israel you’re writing a hate-post about you always draw comparisons with Nazi Germany? Never Stalin, are you unfamiliar with the Russian gulags? Or South Africa during the Boer War? Or North Korea? NK still has concentration camps, a few hundred thousand people are in them – chemical weapons have been tested on prisoners, children are held for having ‘class enemies’ as relatives and famine, extreme violence and torture is all widespread.

    Back to the point I’ll happily debate the rights and wrongs of the US and Gitmo itself but when you trivialise the horrors of Nazi Germany by casually dishing out the ‘nazi’ label I really can’t be bothered.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Toadborg wrote:
    No thankyou. Your posts are a wonder as well.

    Stalinist is a turn of phrase, it wasn't a specific comparison as was quite obvious.......

    Stalinist is QUITE different from any system implemented anywhere in the world EXCEPT North Korea, which seems to been getting steadily worse than under the USSR Stalin.

    Obvious? For obvious reasons you don't chuck phrases like "Stalinist". One doesn't chuck "Nazi" around... we aren't the Mass Media. Castro doesn't opperate a Stalinist system. So the whip out a word like Stalinist seems foolish. Neither does Chavez. Sure, they are left wing. But they are hardly as Totalitarian as Stalin.

    You don't go calling Bush Hitler. Don't call Castro or Chavez Stalin.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hang on a minute dis - you were expressing approval of Pinochet's regime in Chile in the 70's not long ago. You're a hypocrite.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Blagsta wrote:
    Hang on a minute dis - you were expressing approval of Pinochet's regime in Chile in the 70's not long ago. You're a hypocrite.

    I think most of us realised that AGES ago. Most of the right wing are.

    I started ignoring his post unless I need a laugh.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That post doesn’t even merit a comprehensive response. Tbh I’m disappointed and slightly disgusted that a seemingly educated person is so ignorant to make the wholly inappropriate Nazi jibe at the US. I can only presume you have no understanding of the history of Nazi Germany which is pretty worrying, perhaps a read of Martin Gilbert’s The Holocaust might help you understand how inaccurate as well as offensive your pathetic insult is.
    Blah blah blah. Are you ready to admit that the US government is engaged in acts of torture far more comprehensive than Venezuela has ever managed?

    yes/no?
    Back to the point I’ll happily debate the rights and wrongs of the US and Gitmo itself but when you trivialise the horrors of Nazi Germany by casually dishing out the ‘nazi’ label I really can’t be bothered.
    Nice 'get out clause' eh?

    So if I'm now to say that Gitmo isn't as bad as a nazi concentration camp, can we put that behind us now and can we get you to admit that the US is a far worse torturer than Chavez could ever be?

    yes/no?

    Would you be happy if the US government was overthrown by a coup d'etat, like you would be in the case of Venezuela? And if not, why not?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good on Chavaz ! Bloody americans want to steal everyones oil ! :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sammy2006 wrote:
    Good on Chavaz ! Bloody americans want to steal everyones oil ! :mad:
    It was Evo Morales.

    But in principle I agree. If you don't want foreign fatcats controlling your oil, you shouldn't be forced to and I think it's a really important step.

    As for the dictators debate, I think I should keep well out, you're scaring me!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Stalinist is QUITE different from any system implemented anywhere in the world EXCEPT North Korea, which seems to been getting steadily worse than under the USSR Stalin.

    Obvious? For obvious reasons you don't chuck phrases like "Stalinist". One doesn't chuck "Nazi" around... we aren't the Mass Media. Castro doesn't opperate a Stalinist system. So the whip out a word like Stalinist seems foolish. Neither does Chavez. Sure, they are left wing. But they are hardly as Totalitarian as Stalin.

    You don't go calling Bush Hitler. Don't call Castro or Chavez Stalin.

    What are the factual differences between the actions of any of those named ? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Hang on a minute dis - you were expressing approval of Pinochet's regime in Chile in the 70's not long ago. You're a hypocrite.

    This again. :rolleyes: Nowhere have I expressed ‘approval’ for the excesses and wrongdoings of Pinochet’s regime. However I will acknowledge that Allende wasn’t the saint he’s made out to be. Also, Chile is a stable and prosperous country today, I think Pinochet deserves much of the credit for that. And the alternative to Pinochet – communism, something Pinochet fought off and the radical terrorism of the MIR would have I believe resulted in even greater human rights abuses in Chile. The human rights abuses under Pinochet are indefensible – I acknowledge them and condemn them (shame the left can’t bring itself to condemn Castro’s regime despite abuses in Cuba equalling if not exceeding what happened in Chile).

    I won’t expect to any response from you other than ‘you’re talking shit’ or ‘read some history.' :lol: Maybe if you read some history though you could think up of better responses to those you disagree with?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This again. :rolleyes: Nowhere have I expressed ‘approval’ for the excesses and wrongdoings of Pinochet’s regime. However I will acknowledge that Allende wasn’t the saint he’s made out to be. Also, Chile is a stable and prosperous country today, I think Pinochet deserves much of the credit for that.
    I look forward to you giving credit to Adolph Hitler and the Nazi regime for economic prosperity they brought to Germany.

    Go on. Fair is fair. Credit where it's due.

    And the alternative to Pinochet – communism
    What are you on about?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I look forward to you giving credit to Adolph Hitler and the Nazi regime for economic prosperity they brought to Germany.

    Go on. Fair is fair. Credit where it's due.

    I look forward to you doing the same since you were extolling certain aspects of Castro’s regime were you not?

    The two are very different and the alternative to Hitler was not even worse than Nazism.

    I guess unless you’re hostile to every single government like klintock or embrace them all it’s impossible to remain entirely consistent.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I look forward to you doing the same since you were extolling certain aspects of Castro’s regime were you not?
    Not exactly. I have said that as a dictatorship the regime unnaceptable and has many negative human rights issues but that it is not the hellhole the fascist-dictatorship-loving neocons would have us believe. In fact if one had to choose between Castro's dictatorship and any given rightwing dictatorship, one would have to be fucking bonkers to go for the latter.

    But despite your claims to the contrary I must say you do come across as constantly attempting to justify Pinochet's regime- if not some of the actions committed by the regime. You keep going on about how Chile was going to end up being a communist regime (completely untrue) and how Pinochet managed to bring down unemployment and inflation. And of course, only yesterday you were saying how you wouldn't mind at all if the (left of centre) democratically elected government of Venezuela was overthrown in a coup d'etat.

    Sorry to say it all reads as a series of apologist rants for right wing, US-friendly dictatorships.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    seeker wrote:
    What are the factual differences between the actions of any of those named ? :confused:

    Are you stupid... or just very unkowledgeable?
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