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The cost of a criminal

13

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A lot of them do.

    In my opinion, if they are put in prison, they should carry out work, whether it is state or private to accrue the total amount of the cost of whatever rehab/living costs they incur. WHY should we pay, please answer me that?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What do you think the likely outcome is of making people pay their own way in jail?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Taxpayer money going somewhere else?

    Why should we pay?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How do you think criminals would afford the money to pay? Given the high rates of illiteracy in the prison population and the fact that a lot of people in prison have never worked in their lives or have drug problems, how are you going to make them pay? If society decrees that some people need to be locked away, then society (i.e. all of us) should shoulder the financial costs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They have kidneys and livers. There are plenty of menial jobs that can be done to recover the costs of their various idiocies.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Exactly, they can do factory line style jobs as far as I care, or hard labour, whatever, as long as it pays.

    Maybe give cushy jobs to the lesser offences and build up to the paedo's and murderers with the worst.

    Blagsta, they ARE part of the "society" yet when inside, they do NOT pay or pay taxes as they don't work! This is my point, this should then be shifted to them paying entirely!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you see no conflict of interest between being put in prison by the state and working for private capital?

    What about prisoners with mental health problems (quite a large proportion last time I looked at the stats)? Criminal behaviour is actually quite a complex issue - as I said, a lot of people in prison are illiterate, have mental health issues, drug problems, have had no real chance in life. Now of course they have had some choices in whether to commit crime or not, but its not that simple. There is a big link between offending behaviour and social deprivation. I'd rather we sorted out the root causes of crime rather than merely putting a sticking plaster on the problem. Those root causes are the responsibility of all of us and if we decree that some people should be put in prison, we have to take the financial consequences.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are missing the point. I agree we should sort out the root causes, but I don't think we should be paying for it - again, WHY should we?

    And social deprevation is an excuse to a lot of people, I grew up on a council estate, so what?
    have had no real chance in life.

    Says who?

    Man this is all bullshit excuses and you're avoiding the point. I want them to be helped if they can be, but they should work and pay their own way. I couldn't care any conflict of interest with private companies, what conflict would you have with it??

    These are big generalisations, there are plenty of rich/fat cat etc types in prison as well let's not forget.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Now of course they have had some choices in whether to commit crime or not, but its not that simple. There is a big link between offending behaviour and social deprivation.

    Theres a big correlation between people who make stupid decisions and social deprivation, you mean. Idiots wind up poor and in jail. Amazing insight, really.
    I'd rather we sorted out the root causes of crime rather than merely putting a sticking plaster on the problem.

    Violent control and domination of a few by a handful under the guise of help? I couldn't agree more.
    Those root causes are the responsibility of all of us and if we decree that some people should be put in prison, we have to take the financial consequences.

    :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Because it's just a point isn't it that all the tax I am paying and a lot of it isn't for my own personal benefit so I should be entitled to say I don't think crim's should get a free/easy ride

    Except that it's a pretty difficult situation to get in. Someone else might not think that young people should get sexual health advice, which the government funds, or advice about drugs, which the government funds. A person who lives in a tiny village with no crime might not want to fund any police, or Klintock might not want to pay for anything.

    Truth is that it isn't paying tax that means you have a say on how money is spent, it's being a voter that does that... well in a perfect world.

    But it might be worth arranging a visit to a local prison (not that hard to sort out) if you really want to see if it's an easy ride.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have friends and know people that have done time, some of them do it very regularly, more time in that out! Most of them spend time in prison on roids getting huge to come out and start kicking off again.. etc..

    Now I know what you're saying, but at the end of the day the person that needs sexual health advice didn't break the law, it's a different issue.

    I just don't understand why, if they are capable, they shouldn't work to fund their own upkeep?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    But it might be worth arranging a visit to a local prison (not that hard to sort out) if you really want to see if it's an easy ride.

    I have few mates that spend some time in prison and none of them ever said it was an easy ride far from it... one even spend his last 2 months in a cell cos his life was in danger... and not cos he went and pissed off anyone he should have done, he was only mindng his own business... and let's not tak about people who get rape in there when the crime for wich they have been condamned is far from being a crime of blood or rape or anything of the sort...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have few mates that spend some time in prison and none of them ever said it was an easy ride far from it... one even spend his last 2 months in a cell cos his life was in danger... and not cos he went and pissed off anyone he should have done, he was only mindng his own business... and let's not tak about people who get rape in there when the crime for wich they have been condamned is far from being a crime of blood or rape or anything of the sort...

    OK what's the morale here then, dont commit crime?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To be honest if the system was for prisoners to learn skills and create items that were sold to provide funding for prison upkeep then I wouldn't necessarily disapprove.

    The idea that they should work but the majority of the money just goes into a private companies profits, not to repair crumbling prisons or improve support for rehabilition, etc, means that I can't see how it can be approached as anything other than slave labour.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OK what's the morale here then, dont commit crime?

    Oh that I agree with... Was just stated that they do not all have it easy...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    fAT CAT CRIMINALS USUALY HAVE THEIR SPORTS CARS AND HOUSES AND YACHTS FLOGGED OFF AND THE MONEY oops ...put into government coffers.
    a lot of prisoners do work ...on farms and in industrial complexes within the jail ...as i keep saying but ...
    what more work do you think they should do exactly?
    lots of prisons are now in private companies hands so lets say ...honda buy strangeways ...are you seriously suggesting the prisoners should make honda engines? car parts etc?
    serious question.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Jim V wrote:
    To be honest if the system was for prisoners to learn skills and create items that were sold to provide funding for prison upkeep then I wouldn't necessarily disapprove.

    The idea that they should work but the majority of the money just goes into a private companies profits, not to repair crumbling prisons or improve support for rehabilition, etc, means that I can't see how it can be approached as anything other than slave labour.

    OK I can clearly see the point you are making. But my point regarding the private companies was is they are going to make their usual profit but pay the labourers in the prison the same as they would in a factory. But instead of the prisoners getting it it goes to the prison upkeep/system.

    TBH I am not completely anti-capitalism anyway but I do have morales and do see what you mean.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    OK I can clearly see the point you are making. But my point regarding the private companies was is they are going to make their usual profit but pay the labourers in the prison the same as they would in a factory. But instead of the prisoners getting it it goes to the prison upkeep/system.

    TBH I am not completely anti-capitalism anyway but I do have morales and do see what you mean.
    you seem to be missing a very important bit cheese ...if honda own the jail ...or contract work out to it ...that means honest men on the outside are being put out of work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are missing the point. I agree we should sort out the root causes, but I don't think we should be paying for it - again, WHY should we?

    Because if prison is run properly and they are taught skills then we will save ourselves money in the longer term.

    Say we get them working in prison to pay for their bed and board - many of them cant read or write or have any special skills so they will have to do mindless no-skill labour. Then when released they will still have no ability to get a job and guess what - crime becomes a tempting option again.

    We have to spend money to save money.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Because if prison is run properly and they are taught skills then we will save ourselves money in the longer term.

    Say we get them working in prison to pay for their bed and board - many of them cant read or write or have any special skills so they will have to do mindless no-skill labour. Then when released they will still have no ability to get a job and guess what - crime becomes a tempting option again.

    We have to spend money to save money.
    some jai;s in italy seem to work well.
    they have huge shoe manufacturing and other such things within the jail system.
    the prisoners are paid around a hundred and fifty quid a week but only allowed a small ammount of their earnings ...the rest is banked for them until release.
    upon release ...they have an ammount of disposable income in relation to how long they have been banged up meaning ...they can afford somewhere to live ...they can eat ...they can clothe themselves. reofending is far lower than in the uk.
    in holland your missus can come and stay now and again and even your kids ...it stops families falling apart ...lower reoffending rate.
    here in the uk ...you are chucked onto the street with a weeks social security money but ...are not allowed to claim anymore for a fortnight ...it's a disaster in the making.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    and ...i don't understand cheese why the paying from taxes riles you so much.
    we want secure places where we can lock the guy who beat your granny up ...we are all making use of the place surely?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are missing the point. I agree we should sort out the root causes, but I don't think we should be paying for it - again, WHY should we?

    And social deprevation is an excuse to a lot of people, I grew up on a council estate, so what?



    Says who?

    Man this is all bullshit excuses and you're avoiding the point. I want them to be helped if they can be, but they should work and pay their own way. I couldn't care any conflict of interest with private companies, what conflict would you have with it??

    These are big generalisations, there are plenty of rich/fat cat etc types in prison as well let's not forget.

    You have a very black & white way of thinking. Grow up.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bong/Rolly - I have taken both your points on board and I think you are right it isn't as clear cut as I thought, I can see the bigger picture involving the rehab and education but I still think we need to find a happy medium maybe?

    Blagsta- I dont know why you are telling me to "grow up" because you don't agree with my opinion on something, that seems the childish thing to me.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru

    Blagsta- I dont know why you are telling me to "grow up" because you don't agree with my opinion on something, that seems the childish thing to me.

    its because you have an utterly simplistic and naive view of crime
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You are utterly simplistic full stop.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmmmm, good response. As per. :rolleyes:


















    btw, who was it who thinks that exploring the links between illiteracy, social deprivation and drug abuse and prison population = thinking that anyone who grew up on a council estate is a criminal

    Not the sharpest tool in the box are you?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it is pretty obvious that state housing can be easily linked in a lot of ways with social deprevation and lower education standards.
    And where did I say anyone that grew up on a council housing estate = criminal? Don't put words in my mouth please.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it is pretty obvious that state housing can be easily linked in a lot of ways with social deprevation and lower education standards.
    And where did I say anyone that grew up on a council housing estate = criminal? Don't put words in my mouth please.

    I didn't say that you did. Read my post a bit more carefully.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Uhm no I didn't say that, this has nothing to do with original topic so I'm not going to entertain this anymore.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it is pretty obvious that state housing can be easily linked in a lot of ways with social deprevation and lower education standards.

    What was that about being simplistic?
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