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The cost of a criminal

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
On newsnight the other day they commented that it costs the state £32,000 per annum per prisoner, to keep them incarcerated.

I would be interested to know why this is? Is it not possible to develop a system whereby the prisoner provides sufficent labour to reduce this significantly?

Why has the "hard labour" aspect gone out of imprisonment?
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    MattMatt wrote:
    On newsnight the other day they commented that it costs the state £32,000 per annum per prisoner, to keep them incarcerated.

    I would be interested to know why this is? Is it not possible to develop a system whereby the prisoner provides sufficent labour to reduce this significantly?

    Why has the "hard labour" aspect gone out of imprisonment?
    those figures are only partly true.
    it may well cost thast much but ...a huge percentage of that cost is payed for by prison labour.
    take havverig nick in cumbria ...they produce every quality of denim possible.
    the toughest goes to other jails where they make prison uniforms ...the rest ...is sold on the world market.
    preston nick in lancashire ...also produce textiles but mor for packaging and dishcloths.
    wymott prison ...again in lancashire ...prodeuc kevlar and also run one of the largest laundrys in western europe.
    hmp strangeworld in manchester ...textiles and electrics.
    over 90% of food consumed in british jails is produced by prisoners on prison farms ...from jam to beef to bread.
    many private companies send mind numbing jobs into jails ...such as packaging washing lines or putting tlittle screws into the three pins in your household plugs.
    there are prisons with plastics producrion and metalworks.
    the public never get told about the huge industrial complex that is the uks prison system.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good job too, it shouldn't be us paying for them!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    who should it be then?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Uh, them?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    them who? :confused:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The criminals! They should work to pay off their own upkeep!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For private companies? Do you not see any inherent conflicts between the state locking people up and private capital gaining from it? I have no real problems with prisoners working for statutory services (like in the vill where they make NHS hospital folders - as long as its balanced with educational and therapeutic work), but for private companies? No way.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would rather they worked for the state, but as long as they are working for a private firm but as long as they are not playing pool, playstation or lifting weights etc I couldn't give a shit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
    Does the work the prisoners do pay for their upkeep etc, or just go back into the private companies?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The work they do mostly goes into profit for private companies who offshore their labour to the prison service.

    Why should prisoners be exploited by private companies to ensure that the thieves that run the FTSE100 get to stay in Ferraris? Sure, teach them new skills, and if part of that tutoring happens to be making things for state services then all the better. But forcing prisoners to slave for fat cats in Jags? No way.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that if you were the fat cat in a jag
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    An interesting article sheds light on the virtual slave labour pool operated by the for-profit prison industry. Though focussed on the US prison industry its implications are essentially the same for European nations who have essentially followed suit...

    http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20041205.htm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm sure you wouldn't be saying that if you were the fat cat in a jag

    What's your point, caller?

    It's an interesting thought that Clandy raises (for once): why is the prison population rocketing at a time when private firms are making more and more money at the expense of these people? Rather strange, I must say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How kind (*ahem) of you Kermy. :chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How kind (*ahem) of you Kermy. :chin:

    You're welcome anytime poppet;)

    I just don't believe the conspiracy nut stuff, but you knew that already...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Does the work the prisoners do pay for their upkeep etc, or just go back into the private companies?
    the private company hire the labour from the prison service at an agreed so many thousands of quids per unit or whatever ...then the prison pay the prisoner seven quid a week or whatever and make a tidy sum.
    and we are talking the state prisons here not the newly privatised ones.
    in wymobtt prison they make bullet proof vests for the government and even helicopters ...full size ones but not flying ones ...for the rescue services to practice with.
    there have been plans put forward numerous times to have prisoners building roads ...cleaning streets and canals and stuff but the problem then is ...your putting joe public out of work in favour of slave labour.
    yes there are recreation periods in jail but i can assure you all they are few and far between.
    people are not in the gym or pplaying pool all day.
    those who get no work ...spend twenty three hours a day in their cells vegetating ...24hrs a day if it's raining.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You're welcome anytime poppet

    I just don't believe the conspiracy nut stuff, but you knew that already...

    Sure you do, so long as its touted on the evening news/daily press/et al. as "the official explanation". But then we've been through that many times before.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Good stuff rolly thanks for clearing that up :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would rather they worked for the state, but as long as they are working for a private firm but as long as they are not playing pool, playstation or lifting weights etc I couldn't give a shit.

    Have you ever been in a prison?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No but I've come close and if I did go there I'd expect to be fucking worked hard. Or take the cash out of my personal bank for my upkeep.

    And what relevance does that have anyway?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Clueless
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What are you talking about? My opinion on how they are treated has nothing to do with whether or not I've been in prison.

    I know people who have, and a lot of them have a cushy fucking time in there!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :rolleyes:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ah yes, prison is just like Butlins these days!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Ah yes, prison is just like Butlins these days!

    That'd certainly deter anyone with decent taste from becoming a criminal, then ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That'd certainly deter anyone with decent taste from becoming a criminal, then ;)
    :thumb:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have visited prison, a category c training prison, where there were large warehouses. Inmates worked there making various things like the furniture for the prison, prison uniforms, the packets you get on planes with cutlery in. They also worked in the canteen, had their own barber shop where they could train up and get qualifications, and then other inmates would go there and pay to get their hair cut.

    The people that worked in the warehouses got about £12 a week (that's only a few hours work a day though, 5 days a week, not 40 hour full time, and the goods on sale from the prison shop were very cheap, much cheaper than in normal shops).

    There aren't enough jobs for all the prisoners, most of them really want to work, but they can't all. You can't exactly force them to do it, some of them have serious drug habits and are not in a state to work.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The main focus of the lower security prisons shouldn't be about punishment at all, its rehabilitation which must be the most important factor. Teach them a skill dont work them like a slave.

    Hell, teaching them to read and write would be a good step forward for a large percentage.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Prisons have many functions

    1) To act as a detterent and a warning to people that there's a price to pay if they break the law

    2) To show that society thinks that some acts are wrong and need to be punished by loss of liberty.

    3) To punish individuals

    4) To rehabilitate.

    Jails have to be more than a chance for people to learn new skills - there does have to be some punishment involved and its got to be serious enough that people don't want to end up there or go back
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Jails have to be more than a chance for people to learn new skills - there does have to be some punishment involved and its got to be serious enough that people don't want to end up there or go back

    But a huge number of criminals either dont think they will get caught or dont care either way. So no matter how hard prison is it will have no deterant factor.
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