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rape? advice appreciated

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I think I may be in the midst of something potentially quite serious, and I could really use some good, genuine advice from a few people who are more worldly than myself. Here's a bit of background on what's happened (I may get a bit ranty, so please be patient with me):

My girlfriend recently called things off with me, saying that she would rather go back to being friends, that she doesn't want to be in a relationship with me etc. We were great buddies, attracted to each other, and the time we had together was great when there weren't any hassles in the background. Unfortunately, in my mind there was just too much crap going on in the background for things to really take off between us, and I'm not surprised that she called things off. I'm disappointed about what happened and have been pretty upset, but I'm coping well enough and am fine to let things go in terms of having a relationship with her. I'd love for us to stay great mates, and hopefully we can see how that will work out for us.

That's the least of my worries right now. I mentioned before that there was a lot of mess going on in the background, and I'll elaborate on that a bit more. We had a few great months together, then I got a phonecall from her ex saying that they had been sleeping with each other without my knowledge. She didn't deny this, and obviously that changed things for us big time. I think I got over the hurt fairly well, and I knew those two were not trying to hurt me so I was able to genuinely forgive them in my own mind, but I still could not look at my (now ex) girlfriend in the same way and that put a bit of a barrier between us. As soon as things started to get better and I started to feel comfortable that she wasn't going to cheat on me again, I found myself in hospital for two weeks with a collapsed lung. It eventually needed a fairly painful operation which I am still recovering from almost one month down the track, and it was difficult to build on anything with my ex during that time. She was very supportive and caring during my time in the hospital, which I really appreciated, but as soon as I got out of there she became very distant, and she called things off not long after. I was still pretty shaken by the whole hospital experience and had been really looking forward to spending some time with her without any hassles in the background, so the timing of the breakup was real bad for me.

After the issue with the ex boyfriend came up, and now after the breakup, we did take the time to sit down and have a few good chats. During these talks, I had been pretty caught up in how I was feeling (I think understandably, I was the one being shafted each time). Whenever we discussed the ex boyfriend, my ex girlfriend mentioned that she had wanted to call off the sex with him for over a year now, but just never really made the effort to do that. However, after she had started seeing me she said that she made an extra effort to stop things with her ex (I didn't know that she and her ex were still that close when I first started seeing her, I would not have willingly walked into this mess). She said that she started to tell the ex that she didn't want to go ahead with things, but he went ahead anyway. When she told me this, I was too caught up with my own feelings to do anything but think that she shouldn't have put herself in such a situation and that it must have been at least somewhat consensual between those two, because they had been having sex with each other for so long.

Now that I'm starting to get over the breakup, I'm feeling like I may have been one hell of an insensitive arsehole. She had told me things like "it was not as consensual as you think", "I said 'no' so many times", "thank you for forgiving me but it's harder for me to forgive myself" and "it was like I was in a dream afterwards", but she didn't tell me too many details because it was obviously quite awkward for us, and I certainly didn't feel like probing her about details on how she had cheated on me. She never seemed to show any visible problems because of it though, she still speaks kindly of her ex most of the times she mentions him and says that he's a "good guy", and says that she didn't consider her cheating on me a "big issue" in calling things off because she reckons we just weren't right for each other, so I never considered there to be a problem. In hindsight it sounds crazy that I didn't consider things from her perspective, and I can't believe that I didn't consider how this may have actually affected her (even if she doesn't consider it rape). I had even told her at one point, "it's not like you were raped or anything", which makes me feel like sh!t right now. What if this did really affect her?

I really want to talk to her about this and find out exactly what had been going on, I still really care about her as a friend. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to do this because we only just broke up. Is she going to think I want to comfort her because I want to get back with her? If so, will she not open up to me if she was raped and affected by it? How will I know? What if she was affected and does open up to me, and I feel like giving her a big hug? What if this does lead to us getting back together again? What if it could, and I say I don't want to get back with her? I'm only just getting over her, and I can see that potentially leading to a lot more hurt for me. It's cutting me up right now thinking that she may be feeling a lot of hurt inside, and it's making me feel even worse that I had placed the blame on her for cheating on me.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hi,

    I'm sorry to hear that what has happen to you girlfirend(ex), I've have had a look on the ineternet for support groups and websites which could help you and her understand what has happen, but everything which I am finding is based here in the UK or Ameican.

    This website seems to be a good source of information, its American so the helpline will not be much use http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/rape.html There is also some go info on here just type rape into ask the site.

    The best think I can advise you to do is be a friend to her, offer her someone to talk to, don't force her to tell you anything let her open up to you in her own time. May be you could search on the web for support groups in you area or look for infromation in your local libarary or doctors practice. It might help her to see someone trained to help people who have been effected by rape, as the are more qualified then you, however, remember unless she wants to go, there is not point in trying to force her, as it will just push her away. Which will not be helpful, as it sound like she needs help and support, is there not an adult like a teacher (sorry you did not mention age) that she trusts and could go to for help, most schools/unis over here have a nurse or counselloring service, which will be a start in the right direction and they will be able to put her intotouch with someone who is trained in helping people affected by rape.

    Right now she is more then likely to be as confussed as you about the whole situtation. It is difficult when something like this happens with someone you where once close to, as you want to help them, but you do not have the knowledge to do so. trust me on this one you will need support too (I tried to help a friend who self-harmed, but in the end it got to much for me and was starting to effect me too, so do not fill bad if you need help to, you are not trained to deal with this.

    Anyway I hopes this helps a little, sorry for rumbbling on and I wish both good luck. Take care.

    Hi I've just for this Australian site:

    http://www.women.gov.au/channel/channel.asp?ctid=1&cid=947&pid=831

    http://www.dvirc.org.au/whenlove/servicestxt.htm

    http://www.aest.org.uk/helplines/australian_new_zealand_support_lines.htm has contact information for suport groups in Australia.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Like Little_one said above i am sorry to hear about your girlfriends experience, its a horrible thing to have had happen, i hope you both can find the support you need. I have found one site which mighte help, its done by the NSW government (http://www.aboutdaterape.nsw.gov.au/) they have details there of several avenues to help, i would also reccomend giving LifeLine a call (131114), they are very good at helping with these things (my sister worked on the one in canberra for a long time).

    To answer your question about if she will misjudge your friendship, i doubt it, from what you have said she realises something was not quite right and will most likely be glad for the support. The people i know who have been through similar situations have been thankful for all the supprot they could get.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The fact that she told you at all does signify a certain amount of trust, that's the first thing. The second thing is that being told that someone you care about has been raped is a huge thing to deal with, and its sometimes hard to be as caring as you'd want to be, especially in situations like this where the ex has got his story in first.

    In case there are people in the UK who have had similar experiences, I would recommend Rape Crisis as an excellent website with details of local support centres for victims of rape and other sexual abuse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I appreciate the advice and the links, thanks very much :)

    I'm still real confused about how to deal with this though, and it's difficult to try to find information that seems adequately relevant to our situation from sources that deal with rape in a fairly generic manner.

    Judging from what my ex has said to me, I don't think that she considers what happened to be rape. She did say that she said "no" before he went ahead with it, but she also said that "it does take two to tango" and she did not deny that she had cheated on me. Though she did say that it was "not entirely consensual", she did say that she did not entirely discourage it from happening. What happened to her does technically sound like rape based on what she has told me, she did tell me that she said "no" more than once, but I don't know if she was saying these things to soften the blow to me. I don't feel comfortable even bringing up the word "rape" with her, let alone bringing up the idea of outside support. I don't know if she actually wants it or needs it.

    Still, the fact that she does feel regret at cheating on me because of something that was "not entirely consensual" does not seem right at all. That in itself is mental trauma brought upon by the ex because he didn't know when to stop. Even if she didn't do all that much to discourage it from going ahead, I still think something needs to be done and I do want to offer all the comfort that is necessary to her, even if very little is necessary. What's bothering me is that I don't know how much this has actually affected her. The idea of counsellers and outside support may sound way over the top and may make things a lot worse in her mind, but then again, maybe things are a lot worse than they seem. So I'm not sure how to bring things up with her, particularly because we have just broken up and things are delicate between us. I'm not sure how likely she is to respond well to my offers of support, particularly if she doesn't think she needs the support. I don't want her to misinterpret my intentions and I don't want things to be awkward between us in terms of our friendship, which may not sound as dramatic as anything associated with the word "rape", but it is still very important to the both of us.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    maybe she didn't make it clear to him? or shes lying or he actually raped her. Who knows, but if shes lied once she can do it again. Difficult to say though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think you should offer your support to her unconditionally, and make it known expressly that your ears are always open and you always have a shoulder for her to lean on. Once she knows the offer is there then I actually think you should take a baby-step back.

    However, if she is living through the aftermath of being raped (and it's not clear what happened, so I'll reserve my own judgement) then she needs to know you're there if she needs you, so only offer your support if you're willing to give it 100% without any judgement or repercussions about her perceived cheating.

    Be there for her if she calls, but give her some space to sort her head out and reconcile what happened in her own mind. I'm sure she'll come to you when she's done so. I can understand completely why this is so hard for you, for what it's worth I think it speaks volumes about your character (in a positive light) that you're so concerned for her. Try and keep it up. :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Theres also the possibility shes trying to make it sound like its "less consensual than it was" as a way of fucking your head up and making you feel more inclined to forgive her and take her back. She does sound like shes being awfully vague about how consensual it actually was each time she went back for more. * scratches chin*
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Theres also the possibility shes trying to make it sound like its "less consensual than it was" as a way of fucking your head up and making you feel more inclined to forgive her and take her back. She does sound like shes being awfully vague about how consensual it actually was each time she went back for more. * scratches chin*
    thats what i was thinking, she's being vauge and confusing. she could be trying to cover herself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    SuzyCreamcheese and Ballerina, I initially did think that she was saying these things to lessen the blow to me, to absolve herself from blame somewhat etc. However, I'm certain that she was never trying to cover herself up completely by saying these things. She was always free to admit that she did play a part in them having sex, and she never tried to deny that anything had happened. Perhaps it's possible that she may have made up these things in an attempt to reduce the amount of blame that I placed on her, as you guys are suggesting, but knowing her relationship with her ex, I'm certain that she would not have placed him in danger of being labeled a rapist if it were entirely consensual. Besides, the information that I have about how things happened between the two of them does is vague largely because I didn't probe her for more information. She would say something along the lines of, "do you feel comfortable talking about this in so much detail", and I'd say that I wasn't, because at the time I really didn't want to think about it. I never got the impression that she was ever being vague intentionally.

    briggi, thank you so much for the kind support and advice, I really appreciate it :) I have genuinely forgiven her for the supposed cheating. She never willingly tried to hurt me, though she did realise that it would hurt me (she said that this was why she made an extra effort to call off the sex with her ex). I put down her inability to do this to a lack of willpower and an inability to break old habits, which I can understand and forgive. So yeah, I am definitely willing to unconditionally lend my support to her now if she does indeed need it. Still, she's the type to bottle up her emotions and convince herself that she's not all that affected by something that is affecting her. If I offer her my support and take a step back, I can't see her following through on that, because it would require her to admit that there is indeed a problem. If she really does need support, I would have to actively try to get her to open up and not just sit back and hope that she does open up, convincing myself that I've done my best. Also, during other situations I've mentioned to her that she does need to find her own space and sort things out in her own head, but when I've given her this space I've seen things turn out even worse than before. She seems unwilling to deal with problems and open up about them, so I can't see how just lending her a shoulder to lean on will help all that much, if she does need help.

    I'll be seeing her tomorrow, so I'll ask her for some more details about what happened (I'm sure she'll at least give me that much information). It'll be uncomfortable for me, but I'm willing to put up with that to see if there really might be a significant problem, and I'll see how things go from there. Thanks again for the advice everyone, I'll let you know how it goes :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Theres also the possibility shes trying to make it sound like its "less consensual than it was" as a way of fucking your head up and making you feel more inclined to forgive her and take her back. She does sound like shes being awfully vague about how consensual it actually was each time she went back for more. * scratches chin*

    exactly what i was thinking
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