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P.E.P Pills
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
No one seems to have asked about these yet but they've started popping up round my way and have gained popularity here and in NZ because, apparently, they have quite a noticable effect. So I did a bit of digging regarding their effects.
P.E.P pills, imported from New Zealand are a legal E alternative.
I've included some of the manufacturer's blurb below, along with a list of ingredients which I had to source from one of their resellers (EveryoneDoesIt.co.uk) as they apparently do not have a site of their own.
The main point of caution with these are that they contain a substance which belongs to a group of drugs called 'Piperazines', a broad chemical group which encompasses viagra and several motion-sickness remidies. While there is no indication that these are in and of themselves dangerous, there is some concern that people who are on any form of anti-depressant medication may be at risk from a bad reaction to the combination.
They have a dieuretic effect, which means that they will make your body expel fluids faster (caffiene for example also does this) so it is not recommended that you take these with alcohol.
There has been quite a fuss kicked up in New Zealand over these pills, and although we all know the media hysteria that comes along when any new substance rears its head it is worth being cautious. Legal highs often fall into 'grey areas' of legislation which means they aren't known to be dangerous but also might not have been through a particularly rigorous testing process.
The reason I am posting this is that with it isn't the substance itself that worries me, so much as the fact that so many people seem so ready to throw it back with any old shite just because they think its legal and benign. There isn't much evidence that, if used sparingly and on their own they are that harmful. But the ingredients list isnt that exhaustive, like many herbal highs there isnt much clue as to exactley what is there and if you do decide to give them a go you might be better off doing so on their own. Legal does not necessarily mean benign.
***UPDATED INFO PLEASE CHECK POST BELOW***
P.E.P pills, imported from New Zealand are a legal E alternative.
I've included some of the manufacturer's blurb below, along with a list of ingredients which I had to source from one of their resellers (EveryoneDoesIt.co.uk) as they apparently do not have a site of their own.
The main point of caution with these are that they contain a substance which belongs to a group of drugs called 'Piperazines', a broad chemical group which encompasses viagra and several motion-sickness remidies. While there is no indication that these are in and of themselves dangerous, there is some concern that people who are on any form of anti-depressant medication may be at risk from a bad reaction to the combination.
They have a dieuretic effect, which means that they will make your body expel fluids faster (caffiene for example also does this) so it is not recommended that you take these with alcohol.
There has been quite a fuss kicked up in New Zealand over these pills, and although we all know the media hysteria that comes along when any new substance rears its head it is worth being cautious. Legal highs often fall into 'grey areas' of legislation which means they aren't known to be dangerous but also might not have been through a particularly rigorous testing process.
The reason I am posting this is that with it isn't the substance itself that worries me, so much as the fact that so many people seem so ready to throw it back with any old shite just because they think its legal and benign. There isn't much evidence that, if used sparingly and on their own they are that harmful. But the ingredients list isnt that exhaustive, like many herbal highs there isnt much clue as to exactley what is there and if you do decide to give them a go you might be better off doing so on their own. Legal does not necessarily mean benign.
***UPDATED INFO PLEASE CHECK POST BELOW***
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Comments
http://vbulletin.thesite.org/showthread.php?t=91926&page=1&highlight=PEP
I'd like to give them a go, see if they are any good...
They are alright, you do get a nice buzz off them... but they are no where near as good as the real thing...
The come down is a bit shitty as well... you feel really tired and groggy the next day!
I would say dont drink on them, I stupidly did it once... first off, you dont feel the effects of drink at all while on them, I ended up knocking far too much back and threw up when I got home! Plus they dehydrate you, so the hang over I had the next day was fucking evil!
All in all, I would say they are worth trying if your curious, but they dont match up with the real thing...
Plus as Martin said, just cos they are legal dosent mean they are safe... I would apply all the same precautions as if you were doing ecstasy.
I used to be up for anything, but nowadays it's strictly Pills, Crack, Acid and Fly. Nothing else makes me so moist.
Fuck hash, fuck coke, and fuck speed. Dirty lot.
A type of magic mushroom...
Like the ones you see in fairy tales... red with white dots
i.e Skives AV.
I dont mean to be critical of you personally but this is the type of thing that I was concerned about when they started popping up.
As Martin said the tests results seem to show that they arent all that harmful if used by themselves (they have been given quasi-legal status in NZ). But, much like any new drug that us Brits lay our hands on it just goes into the mix with totally unknown results. At least if you mix MDMA with other drugs you know roughly what the risks are, with this its totally unknown and it could potentially be really dangerous.
If I'm not mistaken these pills have BZP in them which is supposed to be quite hard on the body and give a nasty hangover.
BZP is possible, as are chemicals similar to viagra.
I was wrong, they do have a UK distributors website.
Spiritual High Ltd
As well as the manufacturer's blurb theres a link to a guardian article on them.
Piperazine Blend
From what I am able to piece together, the main activew ingredient in these things is the 'Piperazine Blend' which is put in each of the tablet mixes; 'Twisted' 'Original' 'Loved Up' and 'Stoned'.
One thing I would like to stress is that these are not 'Herbal' or a 'Pepper Extract', Piperazines as a class are entirely synthetic and do not occur naturally.
Containing 90mg of 'Piperazine Blend', this consists of Four Piperazine varients. I will produce a brief summary of the effects, with a link to the original article if you want further reading.
Benzylperazine
Chemically the effects of BZP are similar to dextroamphetamine. Their effects on Serotonin reuptake are similar to amphetamines, and to a lesser extent upon the dopamine reuptake transporter. Both of these effects, though more significantly with on the serotonin side, will result in increased abundance of these neurotransmitters within the synaptic space. The same is true of noradrenaline.
When taken in combination with other Piperazines, this substance shares certain pharmacological traits with MDMA, hence the 'Piperazine Blend'.
Link to Wikipedia article (must say that for the first time, I found the info on Erowid to be less than complete.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzylpiperazine
Paraperazine, Flippiperazine and Fluoroperazine
I have searched the B.N.F, three major pharmacology text books, MMS, googled and journal searched for these three. I cannot find any credible info, in fact none basically at all on these chemicals. Tests in NZ on these capsules have found that the dosage stated on the packet, varies wildly and I would infer that if the dosage is wrong then it casts doubt on some of the more blurry details.
I suspect these ingredients to be chemicals designed to bring about the interaction with BZP that would be 'chemically similar' to MDMA.
Other Notes
There has been one recorded death in which BZP has been implicated (details in the Wikipedia link), where a combination of BZP and MDMA was found. Water intoxication (hyponatremia) was listed as the cause of death.
Because of its effects on the Serotonin reuptake system, it is not advisable to be taking these with any form of anti-depressant.
They have a dieuretic effect, so drinking is not advised when on these. One of the other chemical similarities these have with MDMA is that in combination a water-retention effect (difficulty in taking a piss).
Hangover / come-down effects are reported which means in combination with other substances this could make a bad situation worse.
I would treat these with caution. There is no reason to think that these are particularly dangerous in isolation, but avoid mixing with other stuff.
I don't particularly trust the manufacturers blurb, too many inconsistencies. These are being marketed as a 'Harm-minimalisation solution' and the NZ govt put state funds into research and regulation of these. I'm not particularly convinced that they are gonna be doing much good by producing an inferior MDMA-mimic in varying dosages, with dodgy info.
Not Surprised, for your the sake of your kidneys if nothing else, I wouldnt make a habit of this.
Scary stuff, this is about as untested as you can get.
Cheers for the information Martin, really interesting.
If you're going to do them dont take them with any other drugs at all, not even caffeine.
I wont be, an i think ill just try them in the house with a friend there. I've read quite a bit on them though an heard that you have to take like 4 for it to be any good, im just trying two.
God only knows mate, I've expressed my concern about how untested these things are before.
Avoid alcohol with P.E.P pills
Would be my advice, if that is you want to use them at all.
I thought they were supposed to be really big in Australia!? You should be able to get them easily over there!!