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The reasopn why prisons are full

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Some of the criminals being dealt with these days have no respect for anyone, no sense of shame. Seeing someone crying or someone threatening to punch them is not going to make them change their ways.

    You clearly have no experience of what "criminals" actually think.

    Most people just don't think.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Some of the criminals being dealt with these days have no respect for anyone, no sense of shame. Seeing someone crying or someone threatening to punch them is not going to make them change their ways.
    Whilst I do not condone what tese criminals do... A lot of them have serious issues, family problems, psychological problems, serious low self-esteem. I think it's overly simplistic to thik 'good person', 'bad person'. Just because somebody does not overtly show remorse doesn't mean they don't inside.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whilst I do not condone what tese criminals do... A lot of them have serious issues, family problems, psychological problems, serious low self-esteem.
    And none of those are excuses for what they do.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    You clearly have no experience of what "criminals" actually think.

    Most people just don't think.
    it's a bit two edged though mate.
    many criminals think ...think it all the way through ...way up the odds and places their bet.

    but your right ...your average criminal act isn't realy thought through .
    mugging someone ...steasling their phone ...breaking into your house ...these are what have become lifestyles.
    ingrained behaviour without much thought ...and i believe it is these criminals that SG has a problem with.
    it is a problem that ISN'T being seriously looked at and dealt with.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ingrained behaviour without much thought ...and i believe it is these criminals that SG has a problem with. it is a problem that ISN'T being seriously looked at and dealt with.
    That's right. I know there are some criminals out there who just do these things on impulse. These ones tend to be more petty, but the law needs to give the message it won't be tolerated.

    However, what we're seeing more and more of is the "career criminal", or these mindless thugs who destroy property, vandalise things and harm people, who know exactly why they're doing it. The people who have no respect for themselves, or for anyone else. Unless that other person has massive amounts of money and guns. They don't necessarily "think" things through - it's more about a criminal mentality. And the question is, how do we deal with people who are determined to cause mayhem come what may?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    I remember when I was visiting the secondary school for the first time with my parents, the headteacher gave a speech where for about ten minutes, he droned on endlessly about the lack of finances. When my parents went up to him later and asked about bullying, he simply went "oh, there's no bullying problem in this school, no bullying happens at all". Over the next five years, I discovered that was a cruel lie.

    What they really mean is that bullying isn't THEIR problem...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    What they really mean is that bullying isn't THEIR problem...
    Yep. The headmasters have a mentality of "oh, it doesn't happen in my back yard". How pathetically deluded.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    And none of those are excuses for what they do.

    No, its not an excuse, but it is a factor. Literacy problems, drug problems, homelessness and mental health problems are rife amongst prisoners.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    . I know there are some criminals out there who just do these things on impulse. These ones tend to be more petty,
    However, what we're seeing more and more of is the "career criminal", or these mindless thugs who destroy property, vandalise things and harm people, who know exactly why they're doing it. The people who have no respect for themselves, or for anyone else. Unless that other person has massive amounts of money and guns. They don't necessarily "think" things through - it's more about a criminal mentality. And the question is, how do we deal with people who are determined to cause mayhem come what may?
    carear criminals don't go round breaking things and having no respect for themselves.
    you seem to have it all upside down and inside out ...in your head.

    and criminal mentality is born of criminal environments ...these people realy are not born criminals SG.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Sofie wrote:
    What they really mean is that bullying isn't THEIR problem...

    but if they thought they could exercise their almighty power to make it go away then they would make it their problem, thing is- legal threats ain't gonna stop bullies so they ignore it as that's the only way they could get their power trip.


    On the other hand, I've been in a 'teacher' position kinda- as a youth activity leader teaching dance. In one of the centres there was a girl who was obviously bullied something chronic, and when they started doing it in my class I can honestly say that I was pretty scared myself- I did step in though and it wasn't tollerated but doing something is scarey. I also told her carer the situation too (unlike the comunication I recieved when my little un got picked on).

    I could have turned around and ignored it but I think it would have just made it worse for everyone- I would still be scared, the bullies would still be bullying, and the bullied wuld still have been being bullied. Point blank putting a stop to it made the atmosphere better for everyone but it definately didn't stop the problem as the girls carried on picking on her outside of the youth centre... whada you do?

    ETA: yeah it was off topic, whoops
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    And none of those are excuses for what they do.
    No they're not excuses for their actions, but let's face it... A lot of people would be less likely to turn to blue-collar crime if they had stable households, if they weren't kiddy-fiddled, poor, abused, lonely or alienated.

    When you've got nothing to lose you just don't 'think'.

    It's all very well passing judgements on people, accusing the of being bad but at the end of the day what would we do in their position? Most of us on these boards have been on holiday, we are fortunate enough to have computers, CD's, central heating and decent food. I'm not saying that life is perfect if you are better off financially, or am I saying it's OK to mug somebody...

    But the way we react to the world is based on our own life experiences, our awareness of our environments, our 'safety zones' and our expectations.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    SG, if you are ever "in" with criminals, you'd soon see that they always have their own moral code, and it is always brutally enforced.

    Guess what!

    They still act like criminals to everyone else, because they don't feel a part of that group.

    I'll leave aside people like me who, as Rolly says, will cold bloodedly weigh up the risks of any situation before making decisions about what to do.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    it's a bit two edged though mate.
    many criminals think ...think it all the way through ...way up the odds and places their bet.

    Of course they do. Is getting caught worth the haul? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

    But your average smackhead doesn't consider anything beyond his next hit. And locking him up does nobody any good. It's that sort of person SG seems to rant about, as you say.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote:
    However, what we're seeing more and more of is the "career criminal", or these mindless thugs who destroy property, vandalise things and harm people, who know exactly why they're doing it. The people who have no respect for themselves, or for anyone else. Unless that other person has massive amounts of money and guns. They don't necessarily "think" things through - it's more about a criminal mentality. And the question is, how do we deal with people who are determined to cause mayhem come what may?

    But that isnt career criminals at all, most proper professionals will never come to the attention of the Police and will outwardly look as normal as you or I.

    Dont you think its odd that you think the right reaction to violence is a violent response?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was one of those 14 year olds that skipped alot of school, before i did i spoke to the teachers about unhappy i was about being put in the wrong groups at school. I wasn't stupid but i wasn't top class either. For example i was put in the top class for science, i didn't understand half of it and i was really unhappy there. I asked if they could move me and they point blank refused.
    It wasn't long after that i started skipping school...hardly helpful. If they aren't willing to listen to kids then its gonna happen.
    But why punish my mum for something i did and she knew NOTHING about?!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    er, the above system has been seen to collapse on itself though. Our grandparents married for a while, then had kids etc... they raised their kids to- get divorced and they raised theirs to not marry or divorce sooner. And were crime rates really low when divorce and single parent rates were lower?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    were crime rates really low when divorce and single parent rates were lower?
    yes but ...i don't think that has much to do with it.
    when i was a kid people realy did leave their doors open cos ...they had nowt worth nicking.
    few people had much of anything of material value that could be had away.
    there were also few cars meaning most preople lived where their parents had lived ...remaining near their parents and their roots...worked where their parents worked...worked with the mates they went to school with.
    it realy was a very different world.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ah ok. fair enough.

    ETA: I don't know any figures ut would it be fair to say that the perception of crime and therefore the fear of it was lower also contributs to people believing life was safer for previous generations?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote:
    ah ok. fair enough.

    ETA: I don't know any figures ut would it be fair to say that the perception of crime and therefore the fear of it was lower also contributs to people believing life was safer for previous generations?
    no it's not a perception problem like me having my rosed tinteds on.
    there realy wasn't anything to steal in your average community.
    plus ...everyone was related or knew each other in the area ...this kept crime pretty low ...almost non existant in some places.
    then the sixties came ...a massive regeneration which consisted of demolishing millions of homes across the nation ...centuries old communities swept away plus ...the material world realy took off.
    from fridges phones t'v's hi fis cars etc.
    huge roads being built ...the first motorways ...people were on the move and ...collecting material things.
    people no longer worked where they lived ...or lived where their families lived.
    job security ...as in generations of people having one job for life ...was disintigrating.

    the rise in crime isn't to do with divorces and single mums and drugs ...the rise in single mums and divorce and crime etc ...is the fragmenting of the community and the family.
    the people have been divided like never before.
    along with it all comes a change in self ...more selfishness.
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