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David Irving banged up!

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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    NQA wrote:
    Yes, if you believe in the absolute rule of law. Few people do. But the fact that the rule of law is flawed in some cases, doesn't mean that the absence of it leads us to some sort of utopian paradise.

    That, is well said.

    Laws are necessay, but they cannot be perfect. We must make a general rule though. Current society cannot function without such rules, even if they do not work in all cases.

    And besides. Just because some ruling nut passes a law, which says what he is doing is legal... does that make internationally legal? If so, we have no basis on which to ever overthrow an oppresive regeime if they pass laws... even if they murder millions, as long as they are fairly elected.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We have an administration in Washington which was never fairly "elected" who have pontificated endlessly upon their self-assumed right to enforce "rules of law" from which they have also declared themselves exempt. Five years later noone is any closer to holding them to account for their criminality, corruption and lies let alone overthrow them.

    So, in the end it all comes down to might makes right. Every other claim is just made for media rhetoric.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Well, in Rome do as the Romans do...
    You could say that about anything though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    That, is well said.

    Laws are necessay, but they cannot be perfect. We must make a general rule though. Current society cannot function without such rules, even if they do not work in all cases.

    And besides. Just because some ruling nut passes a law, which says what he is doing is legal... does that make internationally legal? If so, we have no basis on which to ever overthrow an oppresive regeime if they pass laws... even if they murder millions, as long as they are fairly elected.

    I cannot remember who said this but it went something like – rules are there for the guidance of the intelligent and the blind obedience of the idiot.

    Humans should not need to be told when something is wrong, but under a capitalist regime education for the masses is always oppressed.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We have an administration in Washington which was never fairly "elected" who have pontificated endlessly upon their self-assumed right to enforce "rules of law" from which they have also declared themselves exempt. Five years later noone is any closer to holding them to account for their criminality, corruption and lies let alone overthrow them.

    So, in the end it all comes down to might makes right. Every other claim is just made for media rhetoric.

    You have several points there.

    The USA is under the influence of an orchestrated psychological paradigm and will continue until it is shaken from the crib.

    For change to take effect I think the military needs to turn on its command structure. Apparently there was a four star general who was ‘relieved’ of duty on some 'technicality' .

    The reason for his dismissal was because he had an affair with a civilian. Rumour has it the guy was pissed off with the Whitehouse and refused to support the war in Iraq.

    There are also some ‘Conscientious objectors’ who are refusing duty in Iraq.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    For change to take effect I think the military needs to turn on its command structure. Apparently there was a four star general who was ‘relieved’ of duty on some 'technicality' .

    The reason for his dismissal was because he had an affair with a civilian. Rumour has it the guy was pissed off with the Whitehouse and refused to support the war in Iraq.

    Well if he was so pissed off he was refusing to follow orders that's mutiny.
    There are also some ‘Conscientious objectors’ who are refusing duty in Iraq.

    Yes, that's also mutiny (or desertion if they flee). And if you're a conchie joining the armed forces probably isn't the brightest career move...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I detest war and violence and would point-blank refuse to ever be conscripted - but I would quite happily serve in a medical corps. Being a Conscientious Objector doesn't automatically prohibit you from working in the armed forces.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dr_carter wrote:
    I detest war and violence and would point-blank refuse to ever be conscripted - but I would quite happily serve in a medical corps. Being a Conscientious Objector doesn't automatically prohibit you from working in the armed forces.

    We're not talking about a conscripted force, though. We'ere talking about a volunteer force. So I would say if you're a CO you probably shouldn't be volunteering for the armed forces and in fact if you do you're a) so stupid you should accept the consequences or b) not a CO at all.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Listen, there are some bloody good medical jobs in the military - and the only chance you'd ever actually be expected to fight is to save your own life - which I don't think anyone could argue is wrong. I would happily join the military if I thought I could hack it - it's such an essential field of healthcare and isn't all about war.

    I disagree that COs are stupid to volunteer (in certain special circumstances).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dr_carter wrote:
    Listen, there are some bloody good medical jobs in the military - and the only chance you'd ever actually be expected to fight is to save your own life - which I don't think anyone could argue is wrong. I would happily join the military if I thought I could hack it - it's such an essential field of healthcare and isn't all about war.

    I disagree that COs are stupid to volunteer (in certain special circumstances).

    All medical personell are weapons trained and are expected to fight not only to save their own lives, but to save there patients as well.

    But the point of the armed forces is to kill the enemy - that is its only real role. Oh it does other jobs as well, but if there was no need for an armed forces the aid it provides to the civil power could be done by another body.

    Being cynical the role of medical staff is basically either to patch people up so that they're able to fight again or to keep morale up so that people know if they're badly injured they won't be left to bleed to death.

    As a CO why would you join that type of body? If you volunteer to join the regular army you're not a CO (at least in peacetime) - its a contradiction in terms. And anyone who joins the armed forces can't decide which wars they fight in - its a condition of contract you go where you're sent.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is true, soldiers are trained and de-humanised to make killing easier.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not just soldiers.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Not just soldiers.

    Okay, all military forces are trained to kill. Anyone else?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Pretty much everyone who goes or has been to a state school, everyone who believes in the nonsense game of countries is dehumanised and made to see certain types of killing acceptable.

    Killing is wrong, unless your in costume.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    klintock wrote:
    Pretty much everyone who goes or has been to a state school, everyone who believes in the nonsense game of countries is dehumanised and made to see certain types of killing acceptable.

    Killing is wrong, unless your in costume.
    :thumb: Top post.

    We are desensitised to those we see as "Foreigners". I mean, I accept countries as a usedful thing - but they are being used instea as a division. We are all one at the end of the day - the sooner we remember this and all work together, the sooner we can get on with better things. Imagine where we would be if the USSR and the USA hadn't been such arses to each other, and indeed - hadn't existed. If the two had worked together... if Russia, China, and the USA all worked together now... we'd be in a better place.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We'd be in a bloody confused place...
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    dr_carter wrote:
    We'd be in a bloody confused place...
    Aye.. .thats the trouble. You can't make change instantly...
    But it would be possible in todays world, when I can contact a man on the other side of the world, in a matter of miliseconds via various means.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Theres nothing wrong with fiction as long as you understand it's fiction.

    The borders of london are fictional, same as the borders of any location. Useful, yes, fictional, yes.

    This means that when you have someone telling you the only reason you owe them money or have to obey them is because you are within those borders you have good grounds for assuming they are either a thief, a bully or an idiot.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    klintock wrote:
    Theres nothing wrong with fiction as long as you understand it's fiction.

    The borders of london are fictional, same as the borders of any location. Useful, yes, fictional, yes.

    This means that when you have someone telling you the only reason you owe them money or have to obey them is because you are within those borders you have good grounds for assuming they are either a thief, a bully or an idiot.

    Or all three. Paying for the NHS, I can see - I get something out of it. And suchforth - But, just making me pay for being with the borderes of somewhere, aye, its an odd situation. We pay for being here, and our pay keeps them in power. If everyone stopped paying...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dr_carter wrote:
    We'd be in a bloody confused place...
    What is so simple about where we are now?

    The main obstacle to social integration is language. Not communication as this is too wide a concept, and is more similar throughout the species than many give credit for.

    Language is the Rubicon of human integration and must be bridged if we are to incorporate collective triumph. However, with the exponential rate at which electronic appliance is invented it will not be long before a reliable and worthy translation device becomes available.

    Although this will only provide the scaffolding for further growth, humanity will use it to amalgamate language, and over time language will unfold into a universal format eventually resulting in telepathy.

    Oo, Oo, can I have my cloud back now? :hyper:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    subject13 wrote:
    It is true, soldiers are trained and de-humanised to make killing easier.
    And then society expects them to simply switch it off when the war is over! Yeaah riiiigghht!!! :rolleyes: :impissed:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Pretty much everyone who goes or has been to a state school, everyone who believes in the nonsense game of countries is dehumanised and made to see certain types of killing acceptable.
    I would have considered ALL schools to be guilty of this concept.
    klintock wrote:
    Killing is wrong, unless your in costume.
    Do you mean it is okay to kill if you are in uniform, or are you being facetious?
    :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would have considered ALL schools to be guilty of this concept.

    As almost all schools are regulated by the state, and are therefore state schools, then yeah.
    Do you mean it is okay to kill if you are in uniform, or are you being facetious? :confused:

    That's the general belief. Killing people is wrong. Unless you have a special outfit on called "army uniform", then you can trade death for shiny ribbons.

    Theft is wrong, unless there is a special uniform on called HM custom and excise, then it's not theft, it's taxation. And so on.

    Very flexible things, minds.
    Although this will only provide the scaffolding for further growth, humanity will use it to amalgamate language, and over time language will unfold into a universal format eventually resulting in telepathy.

    Hmmmmm.........guess what I am thinking..........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Gothmar wrote:
    And then society expects them to simply switch it off when the war is over! Yeaah riiiigghht!!! :rolleyes: :impissed:
    Well, look a the effects of Vietnam on American troops...says it all really!
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