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chip & pin query
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
This chip and pin malarkey – do you HAVE to know your pin everywhere now?
I know that the banks are saying that you do, but it was on the news that some shops and businesses are not prepared for it so … would they be breaking the law if they asked you to sign or is it not quite that serious?
I know that the banks are saying that you do, but it was on the news that some shops and businesses are not prepared for it so … would they be breaking the law if they asked you to sign or is it not quite that serious?
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Comments
You may find some more information at http://www.chipandpin.co.uk
I think that's the big difference between their stance on it now, and the preceeding months when they've been willing to take a signature instead.
And of course you get the old biddies who when asked "Do you know your PIN" and are offered the keypad to input it go "Ooh yes dear, its 4352", which makes it easy to steal their cards and defraud them. I'm so glad I don't work in retail any more. They really used to annoy me.
i work at tesco and we're not allowed to accept payment if you don't know your pin.
you can always pay by cheque.
So most shops will insist on PIN, because they don't want to have to pay the bank's losses from fraudulent transactions.
Not all shops yet have PIN terminals, which means they are running a risk until they install them.
I don't think it will make fraud any less prevalent, and could actually make it worse, as obvious stolen cards won't be spotted- a 17-year-old lad with a card in the name of Mrs Ethel Jones, for instance.
But do you use your credit card at an ATM machine? S'alright for switch but I bet a lot of people forget their credit card pin unless it is the same for their switch or used regularly.
Thats my problem-I only use my credit card either when there is a problem with my debit card, or the week before payday or something to tide me over, and I have real trouble remembering it. IO have to look it up before I go anywhere
yep i've had quite a few people do this!
so i started saying 'would you like to enter your pin number in please?' or something like that. otherwise i might get some smart arse responding with 'yes' when i say 'do you know your chip and pin'.
why don't you get it changed to something you can remember?
ive ordered a new pin today as ive forgotten mine on my credit card, but it wont arrive for 3-4 working days and by then ill have been paid lol, never mind
Sorry to drag this up again but this one REALLY annoyed me.
Shops and businesses have absolutely NO BUSINESS (not my words, words of a senior manager at HSBC) refusing completely to accept signatures.
Only if the card is a valid Chip and PIN card does any store have a right to refuse a signature. If the customer has had the card activated so that he/she can still sign because they a) have physical trouble with the PIN pad or b) have mental trouble with the PIN itself, the store has no grounds to decline the transaction on this basis. All stores SHOULD have been informing their customers with difficulties of this nature of the alternate option over the last year or so.
If the card is one of those that hasn't been converted (Amex still haven't converted their credit cards yet) then there are still no grounds to refuse a transaction because the customer has to sign.
There's still a lot of confusion about all this Chip and PIN issue - I was in Sainsburys the other day and one of the cashiers told me I had to know my PIN for my Amex card by Valentine's Day otherwise I wouldn't be served anymore. Then I told her it hadn't been given a PIN yet and she told me 'well you must find out, all cards have a PIN now, it's the law'. I tried to explain the facts to her but she continued to insist that she was right. I did actually write to the store manager suggesting they should train their staff properly - it didn't really bother me too much but my nan is old and very excitable - if she'd been told that instead of me she'd probably get into a terrible panic about it all and that's not really good for her at all.
no.
if they have the option to sign with one of those special cards then they will be able to sign.
SOME shops are telling elderly customers who can't remember it that they HAVE to know their PIN and there is NO other option. SOME shops are NOT informing customers that they have the option of signing if they can't remember their PIN.
Oh, and another (slightly arsey) point - it's not a PIN number, it's a PIN, which stands for personal identification number - otherwise it'd be a personal identification number number...
yes i'm reading what you're saying unfortunately.
well if the person ordered a special card which enabled them to sign for items then they'd realise they can sign for it!
and if you don't have one of these cards then yes in most cases you can't sign for it.
it's not down to checkout staff.
down to the bank.
The banks may rarely see some of these customers - and can hardly be expected to work out from a database of names which customers will have trouble remembering their PIN.
The checkout staff will see these people on a regular basis and SHOULD be advising them what to do. It makes it even worse that some checkout staff are visibly giving out incorrect information.
what on earth, you work in a shop do you?
yes if i served a customer who couldn't remember their pin number (i haven't done as of 14th feb) i would remind them that they can apply for a signing card but i haven't been asked to do so or given any information on this by my employers. therefore it is NOT my responsibility. i'm not a bank!!
It's not the bank's fault (or yours) if your personnel department has omitted to train you effectively.
I don't think its my job to make sure they know all thier options, the bank get paid money for people using these cards, they should be the ones telling thier customers what to do.
Any shop has every right to refuse any sale as it is a private business. In theory if a shop manager doesn't like the look of you, he has every right to ask you to leave the store as it is a private premises.
Pensioners have to use a pin to access thier pensions at post offices. If they have to remember thier pin why shouldn't everyone else.
Elderly and disabled people are entitled to request a non-chip enabled card from their bank, and shops will not be liable for fraud losses with these cards. But it's up to the bank to tell elderly and disabled people that they are entitled to use signature cards- not the shop.
Shop assistants should not be turning away cards that are not chip-enabled, and that is not correct procedure.
One other point: shops do not have to legally enforce chip and PIN at all. If I wanted to I could accept signatures- except I would be liable for fraud losses.